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General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: White Rabbit on June 26, 2023, 09:26:06 PM
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I saw the article that Its My Show will not supplement to the M. P.
Their stated reasons are very valid.
Here’s my question, Mr. Gural who constantly complains about wanting the best horses, drivers & trainers racing there, then why not give the winner of what probably is the premiere race for 3 yo p.c. a free buy into the M.P. if there not eligible. He’s constantly going on about horsemen racing their best there.
Nice job Canada on making the Cup arguably the top 3 pc race.
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sorry but it doesn't work that way
if you don't have the stones to put up the sustaining payments like everyone else than the buy in must be a significant premium
not gural's fault the owner didn't keep him eligible or decide not to supplement
we would all like to see best on best in the big races but there is an economic side to it as well m\
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Im with jug on this. Never happen and makes no sense. Be the end of need for supplementation and would undermine future of Pace. Many would wait to see what they have first and save fees. Then if you had a likely winner expect automatac freebie. Is there a never ending quest for welfare money. Not to mention plenty of nice horses still going; including confederate.
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I mean I could see wanting the the N.A Cup winner there but I can also say u just won just under a half mill U.S money if you want to race for the big bucks do it like everyone else
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Supplemental entries favor the big owners. There is a number where financially you are better off not paying the never ending payments and supplement if you get a great horse.
I stopped paying into stakes that have the supplement eligibility a long time ago.
Pay your money and take your chances.
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M.P. is not the premier race it once was. You wouldn’t be giving free b’s away because only one horse assuming no dead heat gets in.
Most of the top 2 yr old studs from last year are eligible to both NC & MP.
Last but not least this is a rare occurrence, a gelding won the NC.
The industry needs a little vision here. Stop with the welfare comments, that’s a little played out now
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Luv to see him there but not sure how this isnt about free $ for me.
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Should not be allowed to supplement, agree if ya don't have the stones to put it up front, ya should be watching like the rest of us. I don't think you should be able to supplement to any stake races, why ante up the cash when ya can just buy in later.
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Would be a much nicer Pace though wouldnt it? I still like pelling closer Confederate but the NACup winner brings his best every start and should not be underestimated in very very least. And i wouldnt want to bet my last $ on confederate to beat Its My Show. Toscanno barn is well regarded by a lot of us commoner fans and is industry conscious - not such a bad thing for us that enjoy the industry, right?
I dont know Mr Gural personally, but based just on social and print media; like most successful buisnessmen seems pretty generous with his $. Might do it. ngc3
Tell Jeff the duke has changed his mind and now supports the concept on a one time only basis. I trust he'll give that support the consideration it warrants. ngc3
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It’s not about free money, there’s no guarantee Show would win. It’s about making the most competitive race possible, which give’s Meadowlands the best opportunity to have the best wagering possible. You don’t think it’s a better betting race if all the top horses make the final.
Just because you give the winner of the Cup a buy doesn’t mean he makes the final. Betting public wants to the best throw down.
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It’s about making the most competitive race possible, which give’s Meadowlands the best opportunity to have the best wagering possible.
BUT, is it fair to the owner that made the payments to be knocked out by an owner that didn't make the payments?
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Do they really have the best horse then.
Bert Hanover , Niatross , SBSW all took on all comers.
My perspective is putting together the best race possible.
The MP is not the premier race it was under the DeFrank era.
In that era , time almost everyone made their 3pc eligible, because it was such a high profile race.
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Do they really have the best horse then.
Bert Hanover , Niatross , SBSW all took on all comers.
My perspective is putting together the best race possible.
The MP is not the premier race it was under the DeFrank era.
In that era , time almost everyone made their 3pc eligible, because it was such a high profile race.
Under the gural regime, almost everyone races in the amatuers
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Do they really have the best horse then.
My perspective is putting together the best race possible.
IMVHO
Just because you may be the best shouldn't mean you get a free ride.
The may be the best truck driver still needs to pay his way by paying for a CDL.
The may be the best fisherman still needs to buy a fishing license.
No offense intented
JMVHO
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To all the other owners that paid the staking fees or would have supplemented when supplemental payment was due. ABSOLUTELY NO WAY should this ever be considered. Pay to play, or pack up and go home.
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Can’t win it if your not in it
Pay the supplement or watch on sidelines
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Supplemental fees should be done away with altogether. It is a ridiculous concept. You have to be 'in it to win it'.
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To all the other owners that paid the staking fees or would have supplemented when supplemental payment was due. ABSOLUTELY NO WAY should this ever be considered. Pay to play, or pack up and go home.
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
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I'm not against charging a supplement fee. But make it reasonable. If it were like $25k that horse would be racing! tmbz1
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I'm not against charging a supplement fee. But make it reasonable. If it were like $25k that horse would be racing! tmbz1
You pay late. you pay a bigger entry fee. Why should the guys that pay stakes fees February through May, without knowing how a horse may turn out during the season, give away the edge to a horse that turns out well, and can be allowed to drop in the same stakes race for a cheap supplement? Come on. If it were anyone of us this wouldnt be a topic to to a thread.
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Try this on for size: No nomination or sustaining payments. Then large nomination 30 days prior to the event , a large fee to declare and a larger fee to start. All added to a corporate and track sponsored purse.
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Im on this. Trying to get in contact with mike p . We'll set up "Putt on Show" gofund me. Overwhelming fan demand for this should end issue. Wouldnt surprise me if a anonymous donor ("deep pocket jeff") kicks in big coin.
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This is another example of where harness racing has it wrong. Fans want to see the best horses in the top races. Another reason harness racing cannot support itself without government handouts.
Maybe the 2 x a year live attendee want to see the “top” horse but in so many cases the big buildup brings in a larger crowd and the the “Big Gun” gets beat.
Previous race Speed is not everything . Look at last weeks open at Mlands. World record horse get beat by longest shot on the board and many loved it. I did at $50+$
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Maybe the 2 x a year live attendee want to see the “top” horse but in so many cases the big buildup brings in a larger crowd and the the “Big Gun” gets beat.
Previous race Speed is not everything . Look at last weeks open at Mlands. World record horse get beat by longest shot on the board and many loved it. I did at $50+$
That was great to see
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All of this mildly amusing. Would be very nice to have put on a show in Pace. I, would really like it myself Understand it aint gonna happen unless someone puts up dough and that aint gonna be mr geral.
The concept of racing bettors having influence may be slightly outdated if it ever existed at all. Reality now is bettors have little influence on what goes on in racing industry. They (bettors) are a really just valuable for maintaing a useful pr illusion. Imho, they are a part of a veil maintained so the $$$$ makers behind the scene can continue to profit fron this corrupt byzantine golden goose industry that a few folks make great $ off. To continue taxpayer funding based industry, a illusory veil must be projected for public image consumption that there is actually a need and value for harness. Once standardbred racing ceased being a going concern and needed lots and lots of gvt funding, what little juice the betting public had to demand anything had totally evaporated.
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Add up all the payments YOU make, the money you spent to keep horses eligible. The Supplement guy has no skin in the game, just throw one fee and all is good. Most of the people who stake horses generally have more than one their staking. Everybody else takes the risk, no risk for the Supplemental entry. There have been plenty of good horses that have missed races because they weren't eligible. Thats why they have conditions to the stakes
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as a bettor i want the NA cup winner in the race because he'd take money and he'd be my first toss out...he's an absolute bet against if he was in the Pace
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That is why racing has lost most of its fans and has to depend on government handouts to even exist.
Handouts have nothing to do with stakes races especially classic ones like this.
These races are for the breeders and owners first. Most of them do not want a gelding to win a race like this. They want a stud for the resume. Ask breeders like Diamond Creek.
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Handouts have nothing to do with stakes races especially classic ones like this.
These races are for the breeders and owners first. Most of them do not want a gelding to win a race like this. They want a stud for the resume. Ask breeders like Diamond Creek.
There are enough big races so most of the top prospective sires can get a list. Just something to fill up catalog pages with trivia.
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I will make this statement right now. Its my show will not will against that crop of 3 year olds on a mile track anyway!!!!!!!!!! thats why he is not supplemented i guarantee that was the thought process going in the MLPace. the people that own and train that horse know what they are doing.
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I will make this statement right now. Its my show will not win against that crop of 3 year olds on a mile track anyway!!!!!!!!!! thats why he is not supplemented i guarantee that was the thought process going in the MLPace. the people that own and train that horse know what they are doing.
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VC,
Am trying to understand your point here. IMS race against them at Mohawk which is a 7/8, there is minimal difference between a mile or the 7/8.
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It is those events that bring in the people. If you do not offer a product people want, they will spend their money on something else. Racing is an entertainment product and the customer have made it clear they prefer other entertainment options. That is why racing has lost so many customers. Without the best horses a race like the Pace is not as much of a show as it could be. Harness racing must get out of the past.
Nobody cares anymore. The young people today don’t even know what harness racing is. People don’t wanna bet on juiced up horses and trainers and drivers like carnival workers. It’s a joke today
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How many people are saying “I’m not betting this race or I’m not going to the track because this horse is not in the field”??? Darn few if any.
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Parked,
You can’t say how many will or won’t go or bet the race because IMS isn’t in the elimination, same as I can’t say how many more will go and bet the race if he is. One of those ill measurable variables. But it’s a variable that can be controlled. If I owned, as a example Confederate, I would want him in the race and have my chance to beat him to increase my horses stud value. The purse really is secondary when your taking about stud syndications
The business of racing horses from all perspectives has changed over the last 15-20 years. So adapt or die. The business needs to put out the best racing product it can.
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Also E,
I know Show is a gelding, am looking at from the owners point of view like Confederate of potential stud value for beating Show, the defending NA winner.
Shows ownership stated if he was a stud the would pay the supplement.
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If you want the top colts, just have an invitation only 3yr old pace. Let the tracks put up the purse. Ya gotta pay to get the best
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This ain’t Confererates last chance to beat him. IMO money isn’t the issue. They made plenty to cover the supplement even he he never made another $. They obviously don’t want to try to run the gauntlet with this horse
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Maybe, just maybe Confederate isn’t the horse he is pumped up to be ?? Maybe he had a headache . No big deal. Did getting beat in the Mlands Pace hurt Somebeachsomewher e in the stud barn or filling his book ?? AND ….. what was the horses name who beat him. ??? 1 out of 20 (probably more). Will have to look it up. Ron Pierce just out drove the big horse. Ron was the best, even if he did wave at Trond as he passed him in Lexington.
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Pierce wave was one of favorite races.
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If I remember right he got fined for the wave. Now we have a driver who jumps around like he is sitting on an electric wire and nothing is said..
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ngc3 ngc3
If I remember right he got fined for the wave. Now we have a driver who jumps around like he is sitting on an electric wire and nothing is said..
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No SBSW getting beat in the MP by AO didn’t hurt his stud value. He was 3 high at the in the fast half ever. It took a torturous trip to hand him I believe was his only loss. Comparing any horse but Niatross to SBSW is absurd.
The big fellas stud career was cemented after his first crop.
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You could have a couple seconds on a field and make one little mistake and Pierce had you.
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The one thing about Mohawk is it is not symmetrical. The first turn is still the original 5/8 mile turn and the last turn is even wider than a mile track. I have seen that first turn take its toll on good horses with divers who are to aggressive at the start.
https://goo.gl/maps/RERQu86DwcT4e2rz8
Ask Voukefalas! The break in the first turn cost him the elimination victory and a better draw in the final. How much purse money did this cost the owners?
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An iconic moment in the harness world. Still remember chatting the next day with a woman who owned horses and raced at big m. Better than respectable career for PM, but i would guess a few moments that still haunt. Pierce one of the best alltime.
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If you want the top colts, just have an invitation only 3yr old pace. Let the tracks put up the purse. Ya gotta pay to get the best
Which tracks have that kind of money today? Definitely not any 1/2 mile tracks as this defeats the purpose [Unless you do 9 horse field at Northfield as you have the longest start (with the exception of Delaware)]! A bad draw means little chance!
Meadowlands?
Vernon?
Tioga?
Chime in please!
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Little surprised this didnt get done for Im Not In the Show. Duke nation was certainly behind a better race but i guess $ did not materialize despite fan support.
Im tabbing dr ians horse coming down from canada and el rey as possible longshots in final. Confederate is probable and well deserving favorite. But vouk and fulton will take action and so might christchurch.
Obviously im not committed until i see elims and final draw.
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You're right ,need a big track Hoosier, Meds, Vernon (hard to draw crowd). Agree it would be hard to do on a 1/2, but Yonkers does the International Trot. And the only 1/2 mile track people care about is the LBJ. I would love to see Lexington get involved, they have power to get it done. If you want a crazy idea, have 3yr old invite, start with the top 10 3 yr olds,100k entry fee, if ya don't wanna pay ya can't play. Then go to the next best. Let the owners put up the $.
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You're right ,need a big track Hoosier, Meds, Vernon (hard to draw crowd). Agree it would be hard to do on a 1/2, but Yonkers does the International Trot. And the only 1/2 mile track people care about is the LBJ. I would love to see Lexington get involved, they have power to get it done. If you want a crazy idea, have 3yr old invite, start with the top 10 3 yr olds,100k entry fee, if ya don't wanna pay ya can't play. Then go to the next best. Let the owners put up the $.
Ahh was this the concept of the Canadian Trot? Are you presenting this as your own novel Idea GP?
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No, but a little different. No 100k buy in for the 10 people with an extra 100 grand to spend. Only pay if you are invited, if you don't accept they draw #11, and go till filled. Make it a 5 day detention. I never said anything about copying Mohawk. Just a true invitation only. By the way I'm not Greg, though I do know him. I have no beef with him, my dealings with him had no drama. Everything worked out just like it as supposed to. I don't care about all the drama, I just respect winning a Hambletonian. Awesome horse, like I said he's mentally ill. Has he ever done anyting to you or anyone on here.