HORSEPLOP.COM
General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: Fuguzzi on June 07, 2023, 12:22:11 PM
-
The geniuses in Columbus will find a way to keep Bruce ranger out of Goshen, just like they have Billy Parker, Jr, Started with them 40 years ago. Foxboro, Rockingham - each fantastic drivers and HOF material for sure.
-
This is the kind of post we need to have here. tmbz1
Unfortunately I never followed that circuit so I can't say one knowledgeable thing about them. Don't think the Chicago base will either so I hope that there are enough people on this forum from that area to contribute
-
The geniuses in Columbus will find a way to keep Bruce ranger out of Goshen, just like they have Billy Parker, Jr, Started with them 40 years ago. Foxboro, Rockingham - each fantastic drivers and HOF material for sure.
In a previous thread I explained after I called the HOF, there are 2 ways to be nominated to the HOF:
If you are a member you can nominate
Otherwise the United States Harness Writers Association (USHWA)
Then all the procedures, process...we just had a Luc Ouellette thread for this, but sure let's have a thread for every individual entity lol!
https://harnessmuseum.com/living-hall-fame-election-information
Until the best driver ever in a sulky (WC JR.) is in the HOF they have no integrity, cheaters and creeps and horse murders are in....the kid who answered the phone there didn't even know who Wally is! ngc3
Fucking disorganized, disconnected, unfocused insane asylum here and there! ;D
-
I hear ya! Wally drove a bit for us back in the day at YR. His talent is unquestioned. When he brought out the gray single hitch sulky connected by one ping clanging all over the rockhard stone dust track and he was holding the lines, the fucking horses knew he meant business.
But let's be honest, they are not going to enshrine a drug addicted (then, not now), cheating (brought a race fixer named Dave Ingraham to YR, I know his brother in law) horse kicking, arrogant convicted of an A felony clown, because thats what he is essentially, who torpedoed himself and his career in its prime. Talent enough for his own wing at Goshen but it ain't happening.
-
I hear ya! Wally drove a bit for us back in the day at YR. His talent is unquestioned. When he brought out the gray single hitch sulky connected by one ping clanging all over the rockhard stone dust track and he was holding the lines, the fucking horses knew he meant business.
But let's be honest, they are not going to enshrine a drug addicted (then, not now), cheating (brought a race fixer named Dave Ingraham to YR, I know his brother in law) horse kicking, arrogant convicted of an A felony clown, because thats what he is essentially, who torpedoed himself and his career in its prime. Talent enough for his own wing at Goshen but it ain't happening.
He, Wally sounds like a prince amongst subjects.
I don't care if he killed ev1 in yonkers ny and northfield oh and scarborough me- big loss that would be lol ngc3, best dude who ever graced a sulky, symbiotic relationship with a horse like non other....a handful of misdeeds amongst 10k+ accomplishments in the most corrupt sport in the galaxy.
Let's not be hypocrites, but if we are, then,
FUCK THE HOF!
-
Btw, Sen. Blu, I am sorry if you find my HOF threads a bit tedious, but as I approach 60, having loved this business, it is not a sport anymore, since I was 6 years old, it truly annoys me that for various frivoulous, arbitrary and just plain wrong reasons, the 3 greatest drivers alive who belong in the HOF, but aren't will never be there. PLEASE UNDERSTAND I AM SAYING THESE 3 SHOULD BE IN THE HOF before anyone else right now, I am not saying they are the 3 greatest drivers alive. I stood there and watched Chris Boring, Ted Wing and the truly ridiculous Billy Popfinger enshrined and none of them truly belong. I respect Wing alot - great horseman, excellent driver, blah blah and did it all unsighted in one eye. Just saying he is not quite HOF material. Kinda the Keith Hernandez of harness racing.
-
SB I agree bro, chill. I gave up on the HOF when they put Linda Toscano and Billy Popfinger in. Neither are worthy.
-
Btw, Sen. Blu, I am sorry if you find my HOF threads a bit tedious, but as I approach 60, having loved this business, it is not a sport anymore, since I was 6 years old, it truly annoys me that for various frivoulous, arbitrary and just plain wrong reasons, the 3 greatest drivers alive who belong in the HOF, but aren't will never be there. PLEASE UNDERSTAND I AM SAYING THESE 3 SHOULD BE IN THE HOF before anyone else right now, I am not saying they are the 3 greatest drivers alive. I stood there and watched Chris Boring, Ted Wing and the truly ridiculous Billy Popfinger enshrined and none of them truly belong. I respect Wing alot - great horseman, excellent driver, blah blah and did it all unsighted in one eye. Just saying he is not quite HOF material. Kinda the Keith Hernandez of harness racing.
My ex wife worked as a hot walker for him as a kid.
Same dude that was pulled out of the sulky and beaten with a whip by Joe Pesci for race fixing their can't lose tip in the Dangerfield movie, Easy Money!
;D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L90uDzDbdV0
-
He can't chill, he took a cialis thinking it was his xanax.
-
I agree that Water was unreal on overnight horses.
But what were the major races he won. Big difference in driving in overnights , versus the major stake races that come along once a year with one horse. Any mistakes made in those races , there’s no redo the following week with that horse. One shot deal .Where as in overnights, you get a redo every week.
That’s why John Campbell was the best ever going for big money.
-
Good point Two answers 1 who would trust him to drive for big money. Hell, how do you know he would even show up or wouldnt get days on the eve of the race or some other shit. 2 he drove horses under the gun and full out from the word go. After a few Wally drives, you had no horse left. He didn't care, he was getting put down on four horses per race and could choose, knowing there were always more drives coming his way. Such an addict. I remember him accepting his SOA driver of the year award and standing there crying about how appreciative he was, sorry for screwing people over, gonna get clean, blah, blah, blah...within a few weeks NYPD found him passed out in his car in Washington Heights ( google it) early on a Sunday morning after he scored some Cocaine from The dominicans He did drive Cambest for Fred Grant to that scintilating 1:46 mile but I am sure you know what happened 5 mins after the race.
-
Walter still should be in the hall of fame just like Pete Rose. Great at what they did.
-
Walter Case Jr. on a $6k purse trotter with dead last drives and breaks with every other driver going from the 7 hole first time with him.
Yonkers, Horse leaves, breaks, settles quickly, surges to the top just before the second turn, takes a breather lets him out.
Should be 99-1
7/2 wins for fun.
Who would survive the microscope in harness racing, what we don't know could fill a planet of libraries, what we do know on all of them makes me sick from them doing it and or their ineffectiveness for not being able to make it stop.
I love John Campbell, but for the sake of this discussion, and the overwhelming corruption before during and after him - FUCK HIM TOO! ;D
-
Campbell was part of the corruption also. No one ever knew it though.
-
Its still an old boys club, as they die off they reconsider people they past over. The shame is alot of the old guard, passed before they had a nomination.
As much as I hate saying this, I agree with what the Senator says, There was corruption before and after.
-
I loved Billy Pop in his prime ... to bet on. Got a ton of great prices. Shirley's Beau forever
Hated Frank ... he was part of the big sting with all the RR big boys getting "popped"
-
Billy O drove Cam to 46 TT
-
Again I pose the ? , what major Stakes did he win.
Pete Rose won a WS or 2. So I don’t get the comparison
-
Again I pose the ? , what major Stakes did he win.
Pete Rose won a WS or 2. So I don’t get the comparison
You are not incorrect, Yonkers, Northfield tolerated, looked the other way because he broke mutual pools records pre-casino, pre-simulcasting!
He won his share of stakes mostly at home track or in the neighborhood.
He was unreliable to leave town because of the drug addiction / testing sure.
But while he was a fuck up, I think he could of got Bulldog Hanover to a sub 145 mile. Greatest ever, if our life depended on him winning, he'd be the man with it in his hands! tmbz1
-
Just because you win a stake race doesn't make you a hall of famer. A guy that can take rats and make them winners on a consistent basis is the guy with golden hands. This is just my opinion. You can put an average driver on a great horse and he will still be great. Put an average driver on a rat and see what happens. This is what made Walter who he was. He was a natural and should be in the hall.
-
White rabbit is correct about Billy O in the TT But I was at the Meadowlands and in the paddock when case drove Cambest to a major stakes victory and five minutes after the race Hugh Gallagher, the presiding judge at the time wanted to see Walter and have him pee in front of an associate judge. Walter ditched his colors and bolted for his car and never, ever drove at the Big M again. That is a fact.
-
Weren't Billy O and lew williams big cokeheads? Didn't keep them out.
-
LOL Northfield Park who remembers <>$2k purses and @$200k in the mutual pool for the race - Walter Case Jr.!
Never in the modern era! tmbz1
-
Interesting side note about Case. Ran into him at Golden Corral farm. He was jogging a horse for Pellegrino. Anyway, we got to talking and somehow the subject of Roosevelt Raceway came up. He said he never drove there. I looked at him quizzically and said Walter, of course you did. He said i was wrong. I said Walter I watched you finish second at RR in the Levy final driving the solid racehorse George S. Major race, solid horse, 2nd place finish. You would think he would remember. Ultimately I had to show him on my phone. Finally he said, I guess i drove there. Weird dude. Hillybilly who could make a horse GO!
-
Weren't Billy O and lew williams big cokeheads? Didn't keep them out.
Yeah Odonnell did coke. So did Manzi. He would snort right at his locker. As for Lew Williams. He was an immortal talent who was put in after his tragic death in farm accident, partly because his daughter Lavonda pressured the USTA and partly, lets be honest, it looked good to have a black male of such talent enshrined John Campbell also had alot to do with that. He even walked the family up to the podium at the ceremony and stood there beside them. You can view this online.
-
Interesting side note about Case. Ran into him at Golden Corral farm. He was jogging a horse for Pellegrino. Anyway, we got to talking and somehow the subject of Roosevelt Raceway came up. He said he never drove there. I looked at him quizzically and said Walter, of course you did. He said i was wrong. I said Walter I watched you finish second at RR in the Levy final driving the solid racehorse George S. Major race, solid horse, 2nd place finish. You would think he would remember. Ultimately I had to show him on my phone. Finally he said, I guess i drove there. Weird dude. Hillybilly who could make a horse GO!
Guy buried his son, did enough drugs to OD the entire planet of prehistoric dinosaurs and humans today.
The fact that he is alive is a miracle!
I guess if thy don't let him in the HOF they at least could give him a consolation prize, a steak knife sharpening kit. ngc3
-
Yeah Odonnell did coke. So did Manzi. He would snort right at his locker. As for Lew Williams. He was an immortal talent who was put in after his tragic death in farm accident, partly because his daughter Lavonda pressured the USTA and partly, lets be honest, it looked good to have a black male of such talent enshrined John Campbell also had alot to do with that. He even walked the family up to the podium at the ceremony and stood there beside them. You can view this online.
What about Pierce? Hard to refute his years partying.
-
Guy buried his son, did enough drugs to OD the entire planet of prehistoric dinosaurs and humans today.
The fact that he is alive is a miracle!
I guess if thy don't let him in the HOF they at least could give him a consolation prize, a steak knife sharpening kit. ngc3
If you mean Timmy case's death by suicide when he was facing 5 years for tubing. That was his brother, not his son.
-
If you mean Timmy case's death by suicide when he was facing 5 years for tubing. That was his brother, not his son.
He lost them both:
https://www.dignitymemorial.com/obituaries/lisbon-falls-me/ryan-case-6876080
-
What about Pierce? Hard to refute his years partying.
50 years around the business. Metro NY circuit Ron Pierce being a partier is news to me
-
He lost them both:
https://www.dignitymemorial.com/obituaries/lisbon-falls-me/ryan-case-6876080
Thats right I am ashamed to admit I forgot that. I apologize. I think it was motorcycle accident or something like that.
-
Tumble weed,
Winning Stake races and Major races are what makes a driver a HOF.
You’re driving against the best drivers in the sport and racing the best horses of that year , class & gait. So any mistake can cost you . In overnights it’s not the same pressure , the fields tend to be unbalanced and usually when it’s a leading driver at a track they are listed on a few in a race. Again the race is written weekly for the same horses.
Factual example, I don’t recall the horse but Dave Palone years back commented to drive a horse in the Adios weeks prior to the race. Week of the race he was offered to drive the favorite, he didn’t. When asked why he took the horse that was not the favorite “They asked me a few weeks ago and I said I would drive their horse “.
He won the Adios that year.
Again I don’t recall the horse. But that’s HOF pressure.
-
All valid points, but think about this. Over the past 40 years, Palone has won 98% percent of his 20,000 victories at the Meadows. Really not a great talent pool driver wise night in and night out. He had a few winning moments at the Big M in the glory days, but not many
-
All valid points, but think about this. Over the past 40 years, Palone has won 98% percent of his 20,000 victories at the Meadows. Really not a great talent pool driver wise night in and night out. He had a few winning moments at the Big M in the glory days, but not many
I agree, talent but much less sophistication. If you haven't seen this video series, it's fun, a day in the life of a driver, here Palone - all 3 parts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Tq22bKGtSE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiF4d0SNw30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL_1pgdMA1U
-
I agree, talent but much less sophistication. If you haven't seen this video series, it's fun, a day in the life of a driver, here Palone - all 3 parts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Tq22bKGtSE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiF4d0SNw30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL_1pgdMA1U
Enjoyed that TY
-
Enjoyed that TY
Glad to hear it, TY you too. A bit dated, lol, but entertaining.
Now or maybe later, Tim Tetrick:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYuF5DNGglQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_eMmMI37VI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObF_965-4FM
Jody Jamieson:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otAeQ9gFZSQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAPZMoouAa0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LstcFyjQLlc
-
Ive seen the tetrick ones ty not a big jamieson fan here do they. have any corey callahan super nice guy
-
Ive seen the tetrick ones ty not a big jamieson fan here do they. have any corey callahan super nice guy
Good to know about CC, none that I could locate.
-
White Rabbit, you make some valid points. I can only say we can agree to disagree. We all all our opinions.
-
All valid points, but think about this. Over the past 40 years, Palone has won 98% percent of his 20,000 victories at the Meadows. Really not a great talent pool driver wise night in and night out. He had a few winning moments at the Big M in the glory days, but not many
Wasn't Brian Sears there a few years in this span and Palone had to bring his 'A' game night in and night out?
-
Tumble weed,
Winning Stake races and Major races are what makes a driver a HOF.
You’re driving against the best drivers in the sport and racing the best horses of that year , class & gait. So any mistake can cost you . In overnights it’s not the same pressure , the fields tend to be unbalanced and usually when it’s a leading driver at a track they are listed on a few in a race. Again the race is written weekly for the same horses.
Factual example, I don’t recall the horse but Dave Palone years back commented to drive a horse in the Adios weeks prior to the race. Week of the race he was offered to drive the favorite, he didn’t. When asked why he took the horse that was not the favorite “They asked me a few weeks ago and I said I would drive their horse “.
He won the Adios that year.
Again I don’t recall the horse. But that’s HOF pressure.
Any many of the HOF'S have made driving 'mistakes' in big races too! Guys like Pierce and Waples cashed in on this by winning major races without having the best horse and at big prices at the betting windows too!
-
Can you say Art Official beating Somebeachsomewher e in the Meadowlands pace.
-
Can you say Art Official beating Somebeachsomewher e in the Meadowlands pace.
The HOF driver made a big difference this race!
That was the first Meadowlands Pace to go that fast! Also was probably the beginning of the speed implosion which occurred in harness racing and what we see today!
-
The HOF driver made a big difference this race!
That was the first Meadowlands Pace to go that fast! Also was probably the beginning of the speed implosion which occurred in harness racing and what we see today!
-
The Senator in the HOF, for what accomplishments? Insult Comic?
-
Fugzzi ,
Didn’t Sears , D. Miller & G. Brennan all have extended stays at the Meadows?
-
Correct, but not at the same time as a colony that Palone had to reckon with day in and day out. Driving against the Zendts or wilder or Pantaleano is a different ballgame. I know Aaron Merriman is tghere as is Wrenn Jr. You know its funny I would say all 3 of the drivers you mentioned are better than Palpone. Definitely Sears and Miller I know about the 20,000 wins. Just saying they were amassed close to home with 16 race cards in a good racing environment where it is hard to use drugs or tube. when palone dipped his toe in the waters out East, he really didnt do that well. He is leading dash winner all time, but I wouldnt even put him in the top ten drivers all time list...Campbell, O'donnell, Herve, Lachance, Case, Tetrick.......... ...you know that list
-
I guess, for me, it's a natter of numbers vs perception. Dave Palone never really caught my "eye" BTW, one of my all time fave drivers is Jimmy Morrill Jr. Great big money driver, great stretch and off the pace driver, great timing and very high UDRS everywhere - Grand circuit Big M and YR early 2000s He flat out rocks Kinda guy that catches your eye
-
50 years around the business. Metro NY circuit Ron Pierce being a partier is news to me
Pierce was into nature and hunting, never the big party guy, the others would party hard buy some girls ( Ouellette guys) and live like rockstars
-
O’Donnell drove Cambest
-
Randolph Poker, another Senator Blutarsky alias ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
-
50 years around the business. Metro NY circuit Ron Pierce being a partier is news to me
Nothing more than rumor-mongering. 100 people will say shit like this, and maybe 1 person actually knows the guy, but I doubt he knows him intimately like this. Nothing more than wannabees.
-
There's not one person here who is a HOF voter, because there is not one person here qualified to be.
-
Dave Palone is a HOF driver. Period. I know the guy and know him well. He was asked to come to the Meadowlands, at a point in his life where he had some things going on, and some friends and supporters thought the time would be right. In the end, the things going on helped him decide to return home rather than make the permanent move to the Meadowlands. Regardless, the guy has always been a grand-circuit driver. Period. It's not all his wins that got him there. It's all his wins and the entire body of work. The people who voted him in there are not armchair, self-proclaimed, Monday morning internet quarterbacks. When someone here gets invited to become a HOF voter, please, please let me know.
-
By the look of the last three (3) posts, someone sure likes the sound of themselves.
-
By the look of the last three (3) posts, someone sure likes the sound of themselves.
I absolutely do. Figure out how to get your head out of your ass, read your own posts, and you'll see why I like the sound of myself. It's called intelligence. Don't worry, it will always be foreign to you.
-
Well la de dah ;D
-
What did Parker do wrong that is keeping him out???
-
What did Parker do wrong that is keeping him out???
He didn't do anything wrong. Personally, I always liked him, admired him, and respected him. Clean and sober since 1989. His knock is that he never regularly competed against the best, on a national stage, and showed he was competitive with the best. Norman Woolworth once said, and I am paraphrasing and taking it a bit out of context--but if a guy's career, his accomplishments, his entire body of work, and he competed against the best, jump out off the page, then he's a HOF'er. If they don't jump out, then he's not. I believe in his prime, Billy could have competed anywhere, against anybody. But he chose not to. If he did, he wouldn't have been happy. I think, maybe, he needed to stay home, doing what he was doing, in order to stay clean and sober.
-
He didn't do anything wrong. Personally, I always liked him, admired him, and respected him. Clean and sober since 1989. His knock is that he never regularly competed against the best, on a national stage, and showed he was competitive with the best. Norman Woolworth once said, and I am paraphrasing and taking it a bit out of context--but if a guy's career, his accomplishments, his entire body of work, and he competed against the best, jump out off the page, then he's a HOF'er. If they don't jump out, then he's not. I believe in his prime, Billy could have competed anywhere, against anybody. But he chose not to. If he did, he wouldn't have been happy. I think, maybe, he needed to stay home, doing what he was doing, in order to stay clean and sober.
It might come down to the choice of being a big fish in a little pond vs the opposite. I seem to remember Parker dipping his toes in the water at YR in the 90's where he was just average.
-
It might come down to the choice of being a big fish in a little pond vs the opposite. I seem to remember Parker dipping his toes in the water at YR in the 90's where he was just average.
That was part of it, but it more had to do with his safety and sobriety at the time. He's had a pretty tough life, losing siblings, having another born deaf, and eventually losing his wife who was a major factor in helping him get clean and sober. He had a major drinking and drug problem and went away for it. When he first started at Yonkers he was dipping his toes, which you really can't do. Either you're in or you're not. More importantly, he was just barely clean and sober. He was still getting his sea-legs under him. Linda Toscano wanted to use him on everything as she still was NY based. He just wasn't emotionally ready. He wasn't shaking hands, chasing business, etc. Larry Summer used him a lot and after a while he was doing very well there. At the same time, he was getting courted by some trainers at the Poconos. Then he got a bad suspension on a "lack of effort" drive at Yonkers, and Faraldo tried to turn it into some major constitutional law issue. All Zeke wanted to do was stay clean and sober, and drive. However, by the time he left was very competitive and one of the top drivers there. He just wasn't happy. He only knew happiness with being simple, and simple was him being in Monticello.
Personally, I believe Zeke had the ability, the talent, and the skills to not only be competitive at Yonkers, but to dominate there. Same thing with the Poconos. It was never a question talent, ability, or skills. Not for people who know how to judge and rate a driver. It was a question of his emotional state, well-being, and the timing.
Palone got voted into the HOF because of all his wins AND what he did on the grand-circuit competing against the best, on a national stage. Parker never did that.