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General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: swoodall on July 05, 2018, 05:39:58 PM
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Our buddy Lucpark has a 2 year old Rocky Got Framed qualify in 1:55.1 winning by a length. tmbz1
Outstanding right? hvc.1
Enough to get excited about for the Indiana Stakes season. tmbz1
That was until Brian Brown (Bowermaster) qualified EGOMANIA in 1:53.4 winning by 14 and 1/2!
How did Brian Brown go from years of practical obscurity to crushing the top gassers in the country? 68xv.2
FACT: All of harness racing's meteoric rises by obscure trainers have ended up getting caught cheating. 77z.chf
So how is it that their 2 year olds are magically better than everyone else's? 87xc.2 74zac.1
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are you saying hooser is allowing this beard?
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are you saying hooser is allowing this beard?
No.
His name is down on the Brown horses at Hoosier but Brown isn't suspended.
Brown is down as owner on a few that Bowermaster was listed as trainer.
Actually this is how Burke should be made to list his 2nd trainer at Hoosier since we know Burke isn't there.
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are you saying hooser is allowing this beard?
One other point, I have been playing Northfield/Scioto/Raceway Park/Meadows/Pocono/Little Brown Jug for years.
Before Downbytheseaside and Fear The Dragon I had never heard of Brown yet he ain't no spring chicken. 84zac.1
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One other point, I have been playing Northfield/Scioto/Raceway Park/Meadows/Pocono/Little Brown Jug for years.
Before Downbytheseaside and Fear The Dragon I had never heard of Brown yet he ain't no spring chicken. 84zac.1
I don't trust most in this game
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No.
His name is down on the Brown horses at Hoosier but Brown isn't suspended.
Brown is down as owner on a few that Bowermaster was listed as trainer.
Actually this is how Burke should be made to list his 2nd trainer at Hoosier since we know Burke isn't there.
I agree
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Big B's barn got better the moment he'd hired Todd Luther. Peace out.
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Big B's barn got better the moment he'd hired Todd Luther. Peace out.
Yeh, THAT MUST HAVE BEEN IT!!! ngc3 ngc3
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Big B's barn got better the moment he'd hired Todd Luther. Peace out.
Stop it.
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Our buddy Lucpark has a 2 year old Rocky Got Framed qualify in 1:55.1 winning by a length. tmbz1
Outstanding right? hvc.1
Enough to get excited about for the Indiana Stakes season. tmbz1
That was until Brian Brown (Bowermaster) qualified EGOMANIA in 1:53.4 winning by 14 and 1/2!
How did Brian Brown go from years of practical obscurity to crushing the top gassers in the country? 68xv.2
FACT: All of harness racing's meteoric rises by obscure trainers have ended up getting caught cheating. 77z.chf
So how is it that their 2 year olds are magically better than everyone else's? 87xc.2 74zac.1
Having 100 2yr olds in training, as Brown did this winter, can sure make a guy look good. And Brown himself is likely an excellent training. Anyone that knows anything about racing knows the very youngest just need speed. It is not about the drugs. Check that, they need a big bankroll and they BUY speed.
Aged horses need drugs. The success of Brian Brown is very likely not about any drugs but having a big checkbook and large stable behind him. He has numerous horses that never make the track.
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brian has always been a good horseman..he just had owners that upped the ante
tmbz1
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Brian is a hell of a horseman!
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Exactly 2daysaweek. When you have owners that buy and spend loads of cash you best have picked out some good ones. That's why the big name trainers are always at the top of the money list. Doesn't mean there owners are making money. It's just they have a better day job then Swoodall. Racing is there to stroke their ego. Brown had 10 colts in yesterday in the Ohio sire stakes and another 5 filly pacers going tomorrow in Ohio. Whether he has the current magic potion or not money always flocks to where people think they can find success in this shitty rate of return sport.
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Exactly 2daysaweek. When you have owners that buy and spend loads of cash you best have picked out some good ones. That's why the big name trainers are always at the top of the money list. Doesn't mean there owners are making money. It's just they have a better day job then Swoodall. Racing is there to stroke their ego. Brown had 10 colts in yesterday in the Ohio sire stakes and another 5 filly pacers going tomorrow in Ohio. Whether he has the current magic potion or not money always flocks to where people think they can find success in this shitty rate of return sport.
One would think a Mensa wannabe would be smarter than this! angbk
Not one figgin trainer in the history of harness racing can tell you whether the yearling they just bought is gonna be a good one or not until they break them and train them down.
Not one high profile trainer who has concentrated on large numbers of 2&3 year olds in their careers have had the high percentage of success that Brown is experiencing per season getting each individual group to the track.
All of Brown's 2 year olds are showing outstanding qualifiers in fast times with one looking as good as another on paper.
Takter, Burke, Morgan Jr, Erv Miller, Alagna, Joe Anderson and many other large current and past operations have had as many 2 year olds in training as Brown has but the difference is those guys would get a couple of real good ones out of their crops and another 4 or 5 decent ones NOT 20 or 30 or more! 68xv.2
So you want me to believe Brown has a better eye for yearlings and a better training program then some of the best trainers harness racing has ever produced?
Brown's percentage of success is closer to Brett Pelling's, Casie Coleman's or Rene Allard's than Erv Miller's.
And we all know Coleman has "Da Shit" and Allard and Pelling's history is well documented.
John Leahy one said publicly that Joe Anderson was so much better than anyone else at selecting yearlings that he could look one in the eye and tell you if he would be a good one or not. 43z.stf
We all know now that that was a fucking lie! 68xv.2
You can not win in harness racing by dumping lots of money into breeding and buying herds of yearlings expecting to win a war of attrition. Many many misguided owners have tried it way before Brown's owners and have failed miserably. :1
No one here can deny that no matter what track I look at in my programs where Brown has 2 year olds starting their careers those Brown 2 year old's qualifiers look like world beaters on paper.
They may not finish this year that way but they certainly are drawing lots of attention.
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For you doubters here is some historical perspective:
I randomly grabbed a Horseman and Fair World Breeders Edition from 2002. (yes I have a bunch of these oldies)
In 2001 Artsplace had the largest total of foals bred at 140.
Western Hanover (118 foals) was the leading percentage sire of 2 year olds.
Fastest performers:
Artspalce = Worldly Beauty 1:52.2
Western Hanover = Western Shooter 1:50.0
The sport's two greatest sires at the time getting the highest quality mares produced these numbers:
Under Under Under Under Under
2 Year Olds Total 2:05 2:00 1:55 1:54 1:53
Artsplace 140 52/37% 41/29% 6/4.2% 3/2.1% 1/.07%
Western Hanover 118 60/50.8% 49/41% 9/7.6% 6/5.0% 4/3.3%
The best that the greatest sires of their time, breeding to the best mares, could do to produce the best 2 year olds was 4-7% of the total foal crop or about 15 of 258 foals!
Of Course this is a random sample but I'm using the very best sires stats from that year.
I'm sorry but if way less than 10% of a great sire's entire crop in a given year is rated as good performers and you exceed those averages in your barn using inferior stock then you have defied the historical norm.
Now some of you want me to believe a single trainer racing a mixture of sale yearlings and homebreds can crush those 2 year old percentages of good horses from their stock by using what? Hay and oats? ngc3 ngc3
Using the high end, 8% of 113 two year olds equals 9 good performers. And about 3-4 might be very good for Brown.
Clearly Brown is ahead of the curve and we will see if he can sustain it.
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I think Bill Irvine is the mastermind behind the operation
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Steve...you must not have been keeping track over the years seeing the results of breakfast with the babies at the Meadowlands or Monday mornings with qualifiers at Gaitway. Takter sends out babies first time in 55 or 56. Those are fucking trotters. Along with other Swedes there 1st and 2nd qualifiers are 5-6 seconds faster then the ones at the 3 PA tracks. It's not just a couple either. He has plenty of years qualifying that fast. Julie and Ron dominate the gaitway qualifiers and You'll see pacers in 53 and 52 constantly. So put your crack pipe away. Takter not only has a early string of staters that are ready to roll. If those aren't ready to knock your head off he will have some middle relievers, come August and maybe a closer or two come Sep and Oct. Also looked like Alagna and Burke wanted to get some quick qualifiers in to pad their syndication on Capt T and Sweet Lou...Maybe you missed those?
No shit a trainer can't tell from a yearling sale if the horse will be a star or not. But when they are battling over all the MH babies they will tell you why they purchased the next superstar. All the physical abilities and blah blah blah. When they all fail like in the ones bought in 2016. Not a peep out of the industry on 5.5mln spent on one sire foals. A good where are they know piece by the USTA would be creative.
As far as Brian Brown...I didn't hear much about him but never really followed the Ohio circuit before they received welfare money. But his numbers seem like a small fish in a desperately small pond without gaming as any IL trainers over the last few years. Since 2012 however he went up to 954k, 2013 1.5m, 2014 2.1m, 2015 3.4m, 2016 2.5m, 2017 5.7m, and 2018 719k. He's batted between .340-.402 over those years. So it doesn't appear it was overnight or a couple lucky years. He is on his 7th year which qould put him in the top 25 of trainers. Whether He's got something that seems to work like all big GC trainers with a lot of horses in training, I wouldn't know. But looks like he targeted the Ohio and IN circuit where the Swedes, Alagna, Allard, Julie Miller, and some other bigger trainers with young stars don't enter the pool. Plus he concentrates with pacers making his % better since your not over working with young trotters to stay flat and not break your heart early on. Also if He has something NOT saying he does...easier to gas and go the pacer.
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Steve...you must not have been keeping track over the years seeing the results of breakfast with the babies at the Meadowlands or Monday mornings with qualifiers at Gaitway. Takter sends out babies first time in 55 or 56. Those are fucking trotters. Along with other Swedes there 1st and 2nd qualifiers are 5-6 seconds faster then the ones at the 3 PA tracks. It's not just a couple either. He has plenty of years qualifying that fast. Julie and Ron dominate the gaitway qualifiers and You'll see pacers in 53 and 52 constantly. So put your crack pipe away. Takter not only has a early string of staters that are ready to roll. If those aren't ready to knock your head off he will have some middle relievers, come August and maybe a closer or two come Sep and Oct. Also looked like Alagna and Burke wanted to get some quick qualifiers in to pad their syndication on Capt T and Sweet Lou...Maybe you missed those?
No shit a trainer can't tell from a yearling sale if the horse will be a star or not. But when they are battling over all the MH babies they will tell you why they purchased the next superstar. All the physical abilities and blah blah blah. When they all fail like in the ones bought in 2016. Not a peep out of the industry on 5.5mln spent on one sire foals. A good where are they know piece by the USTA would be creative.
As far as Brian Brown...I didn't hear much about him but never really followed the Ohio circuit before they received welfare money. But his numbers seem like a small fish in a desperately small pond without gaming as any IL trainers over the last few years. Since 2012 however he went up to 954k, 2013 1.5m, 2014 2.1m, 2015 3.4m, 2016 2.5m, 2017 5.7m, and 2018 719k. He's batted between .340-.402 over those years. So it doesn't appear it was overnight or a couple lucky years. He is on his 7th year which qould put him in the top 25 of trainers. Whether He's got something that seems to work like all big GC trainers with a lot of horses in training, I wouldn't know. But looks like he targeted the Ohio and IN circuit where the Swedes, Alagna, Allard, Julie Miller, and some other bigger trainers with young stars don't enter the pool. Plus he concentrates with pacers making his % better since your not over working with young trotters to stay flat and not break your heart early on. Also if He has something NOT saying he does...easier to gas and go the pacer.
My crack pipe has been empty since I no longer go to the track for free refills. 43xc.2
But you make some good points which look to me like focus on the quality of what other trainers are sending out.
I am not saying these other guys are racing clean while sending out a few monsters of there own.
Maybe I did a less than stellar job of pointing out that I was trying to rebut this concept some used in their replies that the more yearlings you train the more stars you should have. Quantity does not = Quality.
I was trying to point out that just because Brown has 113 total 2 year olds most of his stock is not considered from the top mares or the sport's top sires.
To me this is the story behind his favorable numbers when compared to high profile trainers.
I interpret his numbers as producing high quality and quantity from humble beginnings over a short period of time.
Any trainer can stumble onto a Rambling Willie in his life but not have a barn full of them.
Point taken about Captaintreacherou s 2 year olds looking like monsters but Sweet Lou's look like sloths.
Last point is I don't remember the other trainers I mentioned ever having over 100 total 2 year olds in their barns but it may have happened. And if they did the level of quality of the breeding they can afford over Brown's army is significant.
Which gets back to my intention of pointing out Brown's success of producing higher quality with lesser stock.
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Swoodall is special needs child, Brown trains for emerald highland some farm who breed Ohio/Indiana they just happen to have some good stock because they keep the best babies to race. Hence he has some of the best babies in Midwest. He’s also one hell of a baby trainer.
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JUST SAYIN, 2 YOF SCIOTO. 2ND IN THE FIRST RACE, 1ST AND 2ND IN THE SECOND RACE
40,000 PURSE
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Swoodall is special needs child, Brown trains for emerald highland some farm who breed Ohio/Indiana they just happen to have some good stock because they keep the best babies to race. Hence he has some of the best babies in Midwest. He’s also one hell of a baby trainer.
tmbz1 tmbz1 tmbz1
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No mas amor may make Sweet Lou look a little better when he debuts next week.
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Newsflash— -just about every trainer with an average above .300 is doing something in regards to drugs that takes advantage of the lack of rules/testing. Why wouldn’t they?? There are no consequences so a big trainer would be an idiot if he or she didn’t take advantage of that fact. And don’t think that 2 year olds are exempt. Drugs that work on a 9 year old 10 claimed work just as good on a two year old and trainers/owners do not care about longevity but all that really matters is their two and three year old years.
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Steve the 113 I think was a combo of 2 and 3 yr olds. More like 76 2 yr olds that were in training. I did notice Paul Reid Stable had over 60 2 yr olds in training and that's a name that escapes me. Know I'm not as active as I use to be following racing across the states and ON
I don't know this guy at all and he has 60? Brown had 10 in on OH sire day with colt pacers with 1 win, 3 seconds, a third, a fourth, fifth, 2 sixth, a seventh and a eighth. Some success but none of those pacers paced off the charts. Alvin Miller(?l had the fastest of them all. But as John Campbell always said time only means as much if your spending it behind bars.
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Little joe was the best at picking out babies look at the list him and least had over the years. Joe was the best ever.
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Swoodall is special needs child, Brown trains for emerald highland some farm who breed Ohio/Indiana they just happen to have some good stock because they keep the best babies to race. Hence he has some of the best babies in Midwest. He’s also one hell of a baby trainer.
So I'm the special needs child? 11.dnc
But YOU are the one racing at the Mecca of harness racing's Special Olympics....Hawth orne! tmbz1 ngc3 ngc3
"Just happen to have some good stock" is the greatest CLOWN answer in months! 94z.sm
Do you really want me to give you a run down on the breeding of some of these "good stock" babies? angbk
Unproven mediocre to average mares bred to average sires producing average to outstanding babies. 68xv.2
This is the Joe Anderson playbook. 68xv.2
You don't need to pay high prices for yearlings or breed to expensive sires to get great results. 77z.chf
And we all now know the secret to Joe's success wasn't his horsemanship. 77z.chf 91.jzail
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Little joe was the best at picking out babies look at the list him and least had over the years. Joe was the best ever.
Really? Are you on drugs? 43xc.2
Because Joe's horses sure were! 87xc.2 11.wp 77z.chf 91.jzail
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So I'm the special needs child? 11.dnc
But YOU are the one racing at the Mecca of harness racing's Special Olympics....Hawth orne! tmbz1 ngc3 ngc3
"Just happen to have some good stock" is the greatest CLOWN answer in months! 94z.sm
Do you really want me to give you a run down on the breeding of some of these "good stock" babies? angbk
Unproven mediocre to average mares bred to average sires producing average to outstanding babies. 68xv.2
This is the Joe Anderson playbook. 68xv.2
You don't need to pay high prices for yearlings or breed to expensive sires to get great results. 77z.chf
And we all now know the secret to Joe's success wasn't his horsemanship. 77z.chf 91.jzail
Yea give us a rundown
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Years of insecurity?_?
Your kidding right?
All those years in Chicago
Have scrambled yours brains even more
Swoo linski !!
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Years of insecurity?_?
Your kidding right?
All those years in Chicago
Have scrambled yours brains even more
Swoo linski !!
Since there's no known Rosetta Stone for a bigwrench post you will need to explain. ngc3
I can't believe Wrench would defend Joe Anderson. ???
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Brian is an all around good person and great horseman. one of the best
he was sittin table next to me thurs nite
nicest guy,,,
congradulated myself and my girlfriend.,
classy guy and very funny guy ,,,
he was with bruce from emerald highlands who is another nice guy,,
love listening bruce talk harness tmbz1
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BRUCE IS A TOTAL NO CLASS POS
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Swoodall the expert gambler, ex owner of the century who had Erv Miller train his horses. That knows everything didn’t know who brown was. ngc3 ngc3
A guy like swoodall with his expertise knows all the angles is losing it.
Brown, Brian D 469 106 66 57 2,117,781 .345
That was in 2014
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Swoodall the expert gambler, ex owner of the century who had Erv Miller train his horses. That knows everything didn’t know who brown was. ngc3 ngc3
A guy like swoodall with his expertise knows all the angles is losing it.
Brown, Brian D 469 106 66 57 2,117,781 .345
That was in 2014
Do you ever pay attention? 11.hmzr
Since we are not speaking I can't speak slower for you. 98za.ag
B..u..t.....I.... .w..i..l..l...... t..r..y......a..n ..d......t..y..p. .e......s..l..o.. w..e..r! ngc3 ngc3
Brown has somewhere around 7 years of statistics as a trainer? 53zva.1
How about the other top trainers I mentioned? 87xc.2 11.wp
Pena, Herrera and Ruiz labored at Cal-Fixpo forever before rocketing to the top of the juicers list. 68xv.2
Anderson, Rucker, Ledfraud all had slower starts before setting the training world on fire, then getting caught.
The two trainers that I think of that have gone from zero to the top the fastest are Burke and Brown.
At least Burke had his cheating father already in the business, so his rapid success wasn't a big surprise. 68xv.2
Before the last 3-4 years, Brian Brown was a nobody on the national stage.
To me he magically appeared with the Ohio slot money. hcx.1
I had also never heard of Emerald Highlands Farm before the Ohio slot money. hcx.1
Brown and some schmuck named Eugene Gilerman appears to have started about the same time. tmbz1
I don't understand why they have had completely opposite results? ngc3 ngc3
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Really? Are you on drugs? 43xc.2
Because Joe's horses sure were! 87xc.2 11.wp 77z.chf 91.jzail
Send me a list of suspensions he had while racing in Illinois please
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Wow he must be a bad man
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For Joe Anderson's suspensions I suggest you go to Pathway (Rulings list is free) and verify for yourself.
Overall 165 rulings, 31 listed as major, along with days, and several thousands of dollars of fines.
It took 17 pages to list them all.
Misunderstandings little joe was the best
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Send me a list of suspensions he had while racing in Illinois please
Key words and tricky phrases "Illinois".
This is a defense lawyer trick because everyone knows Anderson, Rucker and Ledfraud didn't get caught in Illinois.
Illinois didn't test high profile Illinois trainers they focused on the little guys.
These high profile thieves were making the Illinois breeding program look magical.
Anderson, Rucker and Ledfraud thought they could cheat the same way in New Jersey! ngc3 ngc3
Where are they now? 11.gn
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Swoodall the expert gambler, ex owner of the century who had Erv Miller train his horses. That knows everything didn’t know who brown was. ngc3 ngc3
A guy like swoodall with his expertise knows all the angles is losing it.
Brown, Brian D 469 106 66 57 2,117,781 .345
That was in 2014
One more giant detail Clinton's Cigar overlooks is Illinois' simulcast over the years.
It has always sucked, especially when Arlington was in charge of the schedule. 11.dt
Harness racing was an abused step child to them. 11.wp
For years we never got Scioto, Lebanon, Vernon, Tioga, Buffalo, Scarborough, Plainridge, Jackson, Saratoga, Ocean, Rosecroft, Flamboro, Rideau or any smaller harness track here or in Canada.
We were only getting Dover, Northfield, Raceway, Northville, Meadows only on certain days like Raceway on Sundays.
Or Delaware County only on Jug day and for years even that wasn't even an option.
I never watch or bet daytime harness tracks so if you cut your teeth at Meadows, Freehold, Philly, Monticello, Dover or Harrington there is a very good chance you are invisible to me.
There are so many John Roberts I don't know which one is which.
Not to mention if you primarily raced at fairs in Ohio, Michigan, Penn or wherever then you are off my radar.
I wouldn't know who some of these smaller Illinois trainers are, that race mostly at the fairs, if I hadn't of raced against them or saw a horse of theirs at Balmoral in a NW-1 on a Sunday in September/October.
Cigar may have the harness IQ of a Watson but I know the rest of us don't. 84zac.1
Wait....if Cigar was really that smart then why does he suck so bad at training? ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
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Didn't Joe's wife even exile him out of the country for sometime? Whatever horses he had left got sold or placed elsewhere and she didn't want her son going down his father path? I forget the whole sorted story a few years back.
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Didn't Joe's wife even exile him out of the country for sometime? Whatever horses he had left got sold or placed elsewhere and she didn't want her son going down his father path? I forget the whole sorted story a few years back.
Joe was making millions with some casinos in the Middle East
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Key words and tricky phrases "Illinois".
This is a defense lawyer trick because everyone knows Anderson, Rucker and Ledfraud didn't get caught in Illinois.
Illinois didn't test high profile Illinois trainers they focused on the little guys.
These high profile thieves were making the Illinois breeding program look magical.
Anderson, Rucker and Ledfraud thought they could cheat the same way in New Jersey! ngc3 ngc3
Where are they now? 11.gn
So was there any when joe was in his prime?
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Silvercharm...bla h blah. More like tucked tail and hit the bricks. Made millions please. And what came back to buy a couple cheap IL breeds. Nice story!
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Paul Reid had 60 2 year olds last winter--they were Bob Key's....he breaks them at Spring Garden Ranch & gets them ready & Paul just keeps the Ontario ones as he goes to Canada & gets other owner's horses up there also--most of the rest are PA bred & go to PA trainers
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Thanks Songwriter.
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Hoosier Park Wednesday July 11th Race 10 Indiana Sire Stakes FINAL $75,000
Brian Brown/Bowermaster has 5 of the 10 finalists! hcx.1
Ron Burke has ZERO!
Erv Miller has ZERO!
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Swoodal,
You say youve been around forevever but never heard of him? You ever here of a horse named Won The West? One of the gretest pacers of this century? Yea he picked him out as a yearling. Something for doc? Another one of his yearling selections. He has made his owners money based on his eye for yearlings and now they can spend on the higher priced babies if they wish.