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General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: Fuguzzi on October 17, 2023, 08:55:41 PM
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Been watching YR a bit more these days -
2 questions of the guys in the know.
1 - what's Brent Holland's story? How does he make a living? He is brutal.
2 - Does Per Engblom train for himself or is he a front for someone?
TY
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Brent has been making that failed 3/8ths move with great frequency lately.
He is driving to lose a lot. That is something that needs to be curtailed.
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Yeah that drive inspired me to write at the moment, but night after night he looks lost. Tonight he hasn't managed better than two 4ths and his horses weren't that bad.
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He knew that was a losing move, yet he made it anyway. So the question is "why?"
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Dunno
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Been watching YR a bit more these days -
2 questions of the guys in the know.
1 - what's Brent Holland's story? How does he make a living? He is brutal.
2 - Does Per Engblom train for himself or is he a front for someone?
TY
What do you consider a living? $ amount
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Making more money at 5% than stealing You know, the traceable income.
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Well as of today he has3 million in purse $. So he’s made at least 150 thousand this year. I don’t consider that starving. I don’t know if he owns any horses.
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He knew that was a losing move, yet he made it anyway. So the question is "why?"
Brain dead
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Well as of today he has3 million in purse $. So he’s made at least 150 thousand this year. I don’t consider that starving. I don’t know if he owns any horses.
Not starving No, but his win % almost worst of the main ten at YR and with those purses he should be making 400 or 500,000
Dont you agree.
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Amen white rabbit...most.. n ot all ..have no clue
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My plumber makes more money. You wanna defend Brent Holland by saying he is gonna earn 200k at YR this year. Fine - you like to argue. Time to put you on ignore.
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He does fine fir stock he gets...how many drivers make 500 k. A few
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The guy is good for $200-250K a year in commissions. Holland is far from the best but there are many others drivers below him. And I don’t know if he has any other income within the industry.
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Ok I am done you guys like him you bet him he has always been a "stiff"
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My plumber makes more money. You wanna defend Brent Holland by saying he is gonna earn 200k at YR this year. Fine - you like to argue. Time to put you on ignore.
First off a driver has to make 8 to 10 million in purses to make 400-500 thousand a yr. Secondly your? how he survives and I point out that he makes 150 this year so far and has averaged that for the last 10 years & you bitch up as usual when your useless rhetoric is refuted. Who gives a shit about win% if you’re banging out 150-200 thousand/ yr. What are you knocking down yr , few mill if your plumbers make 200 k.
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Jason 6.7 million
GB 4 .7
Matt K 4.1 mill
Jordan S 4.5 million
Joe B3.3 million
Brent2.9 mil
There’s your top 6 money winners as of rt now at Yrs.
Not one yet with 8 million.
What you do lose a $ 10 bet on him
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Jason 6.7 million
GB 4 .7
Matt K 4.1 mill
Jordan S 4.5 million
Joe B3.3 million
Brent2.9 mil
There’s your top 6 money winners as of rt now at Yrs.
Not one yet with 8 million.
What you do lose a $ 10 bet on him
And they still cheat. I have not bet a race at YR in 25 years.
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Rabbit preaching to the choir...it's not about holland....if your not Dunn or Timmy or top 5 you suck...get the stock many many many drivers will win.. like many.. Holland one of them
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Jason 6.7 million
GB 4 .7
Matt K 4.1 mill
Jordan S 4.5 million
Joe B3.3 million
Brent2.9 mil
There’s your top 6 money winners as of rt now at Yrs.
Not one yet with 8 million.
What you do lose a $ 10 bet on him
Just Yonkers or for the entire year? Just making sure these are Yonkers 'figures as matty, jordan, jason, and joe b, drive at other tracks as well as NYSS, et al
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11% ( 1 per 9 ) win percentage on a gate that holds 7 or 8 per race is not good Also he has inverted stats He is 2nd and 3rd more than he wins year after year Very good or great drivers are the opposite More Ws than Ps than Ss That's all Nice that he makes a couple hundred thousand on a couple hundred wins per year
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Just Yonkers or for the entire year? Just making sure these are Yonkers 'figures as matty, jordan, jason, and joe b, drive at other tracks as well as NYSS, et al
No they are just YR Jason is having an awesome year closing on 10 million already
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Just Yonkers or for the entire year? Just making sure these are Yonkers 'figures as matty, jordan, jason, and joe b, drive at other tracks as well as NYSS, et al
Just YRS
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11% ( 1 per 9 ) win percentage on a gate that holds 7 or 8 per race is not good Also he has inverted stats He is 2nd and 3rd more than he wins year after year Very good or great drivers are the opposite More Ws than Ps than Ss That's all Nice that he makes a couple hundred thousand on a couple hundred wins per year
Just trying to clear up his story for you. It’s about making as much money as possible. Maybe if you looked at it tactically and he was more aggressive trying to run down wins with his allotment of 2 nds n 3rds would turn into 5 th, 6 , th 7 ths. which would impact his bottom line. When they’re driving for that kind of purses on a nightly bases it would be foolish financially to cowboy up.
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Like he has been doing night after night? explain the 5th race tonight and that;s just one example.
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Back in his Chicago days Brent was know as "Preacher Man".
You look at the entries and ask "Where is Holland"?
"Ah he is off on one of his Sabbaticals".
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73cv.2
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Holland doesn't get horses that Bartlett and brennan,get. Bartlett drives more gavs by gar then anybody else at jonkers
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Bongiorno and Kakaley are much better too Joey has the same number of wins in HALF the number of drives give or take a little bit Talking at YR
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Of course George and Jason get first call stock they are HOF material Holland is a stiff
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Hey Fug don’t read too much into opposite opinions. That’s what this is all about here sharing opinions. And if some plopper gets a bit over the top there will be a time to reverse that situation. Anyway it seems obvious to me that Holland is a second or third call driver at YR. But he is good enough to hold his own and compile a very nice living for himself. And the owners pay a lot of bills by him finishing 2nd through 5th a lot. What he isn’t is a bettor’s delight unless you have the patience to wait for another Holland bomb. Typically in the last 5 programs he has 3 wins including some bombs. He also has seen a ton of horse rumps during this timeframe. My Holland rule is never bet him on a short price horse at YR. There isn’t any value doing that.
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Excellent response from an adult. Been watching him drive and quire bizarrely I might add for a month now. Take last night's 5th race. Inexpilicably bad, unless you have other "objectives". Cause he has been around waaaaaaay too long to know that was a terrible decision. If Cory Stratton or Troy Rossi drive one, I expect that move from them. Seems like Mr Holland is making a lot of money beyond his 200k salary from his 200 wins annually.
Again TY, Theo. you and others take a mature, non hostile tone whether we agree at the moment or not and I appreciate it tmbz1
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I wish our government representatives would stop hating each other and try to be more respectful of each other. Add the citizens if the USA too.
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AMEN tmbz1
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Brent has Vegas connections and will leave with anything from anywhere to screw up a race. Actually has some ability when he feels like it.
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Oh, I know he "can drive". He just rarely does.
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Just trying to clear up his story for you. It’s about making as much money as possible. Maybe if you looked at it tactically and he was more aggressive trying to run down wins with his allotment of 2 nds n 3rds would turn into 5 th, 6 , th 7 ths. which would impact his bottom line. When they’re driving for that kind of purses on a nightly bases it would be foolish financially to cowboy up.
Exactly why the racing sucks...not enough incentive to win.
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Well YR does offer purses ranging from 12 to 36K nightly. Not bad for a place nobody cares about and nobody goes to. That should represent someincentive.
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Oh, I know he "can drive". He just rarely does.
And this is why a place like Yonkers gets next to zero money bet into their "pools". The guy makes a good living at 150-200k per year and nobody cares what his driving abilities are or going dead tries are, because there is zero oversight. If slot welfare dried up tomorrow Holland would be a greeter at Walmart, but handouts like these with zero oversights make it far too easy for guys like this. Full disclosure..... have not made a bet at Yonkers since pandemic and many others have not either when they handle far less than Montishithole.
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well said - definitely no oversight. I haven't bet there since i last raced a horse there. Like 12 years ago.
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Montishithole..ho w sad is this accurate description? Can you imagine owning this place as is? Doesn’t the ownership have any pride? I don’t care if they own the glitzy Resorts casino that is only 10 minutes away. It’s hard to believe that a White Castle looks like a Ritz Carlton compared to MR in 2023.
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Haven't been there in a decade now, but the building that housed the race office and judges rooms looked like a slum starting in the late 70s and looked that way well past 2010. Wonder what's it's like now.
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I have not been there recently. Last time the building had the same old color chairs. It not a comfortable place to watch the races. There is a room for money that you get a seat & your own tv. That room needed some attention too.
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I have not been there recently. Last time the building had the same old color chairs. It not a comfortable place to watch the races. There is a room for money that you get a seat & your own tv. That room needed some attention too.
That room needs attention too…lol. The only thing MR needs is a wrecking ball.
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I once heard that Holland and another driver makes more money betting on Bartlett than they do driving for five percent.
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I once heard that Holland and another driver makes more money betting on Bartlett than they do driving for five percent.
That rumor sounds 100% ridiculous to me. If a driver in a race is caught betting on another driver/horse wouldn’t that driver lose his license? You think betting on Bartlett to collect another small payout is worth losing one’s livelihood? Pass
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I hate to tell you, but it is easier to lose a race than win a race and a lot of drivers made a small fortune betting on the races. There are a lot of drivers that retired or quit driving in their fifties and lived very comfortable lives after that.
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Rem your 2nd post is different than your 1st post. You may think this is a difference in semantics but here is my take. In your first post you indicated Holland would just bet on Bartlett and make a lot of money. The message was Holland didn’t try and he felt Bartlett wouldn’t lose. Still not good and probably punishable by a huge suspension. Your reply to said something very different. Here you are indicating a driver just didn’t try and made bets trying to pick who would win, not just a specific driver. Also a very punishable offense but different. If you are saying a driver threw a race, also knew 3 others drivers were doing the same so everyone could box a triple or superfecta that is collusion with the attempt to fix a race. That sounds like the life Larry Rolla claimed he lived. Of all these scenarios the least likely is your original claim of stiffing just to bet Bartlett regularly.
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He can do both at the same time; measure off 3rd, get a decent piece, and bet Jason to win, if he wanted to.
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Pretty risky stuff to win so little don’t you think?
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Pretty risky stuff to win so little don’t you think?
It adds up if you are betting thousands.
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Still a non-starter for me. Betting thousands into small YR pools won’t yield very much, it will draw a lot of attention and again not worth the risk. Sounds like a bunch of fake news to me.
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It’s 20 minutes of work a night, not a bad hourly wage
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Well YR does offer purses ranging from 12 to 36K nightly. Not bad for a place nobody cares about and nobody goes to. That should represent someincentive.
Nobody goes to? Really? Whoever goes there is racing for at least 33% more purse money than any other track in North America! From a gambler's perspective, YES WHO CARES!
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Hey buddy A bit confused here., Either you missed my point or I am missing yours. The racing there, for the most part, like Yankee baseball is brutally unwatchable. Many shady trainers and corruption starts in the race office and permeates everywhere.
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Fug what is the motive of the racing office to not be totally honest. Is the shortage of horses causing the race secretary to write conditions that keeps trainers from wanting to leave?
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I have heard all sorts of accusations lodged at that office. I really have no idea whats going on there beyond what people allege. I never had to deal with anyone at YR race office but Steve Starr and Ray Goodness. Total pieces of shit for different reasons.
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I used to think that someone was going to put a gun to Steven Starr’s head.
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You know that little bathroom at the end of the hall in the old race office at YR between Steve Starr's office and the judges offices? They say that Joe Marsh jr once walked in there and found Steve Starr hunched over the sink, a line of coke in front of him, bleeding from the nose, from that day forward, Marsh could write his own ticket at YR. this i have been told, is a true story.
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That rumor sounds 100% ridiculous to me. If a driver in a race is caught betting on another driver/horse wouldn’t that driver lose his license? You think betting on Bartlett to collect another small payout is worth losing one’s livelihood? Pass
As previously said, there is ZERO oversight. Holland could easily bet on whoever he wants and NOBODY will bat an eyelash. Would not be surprised at all if he makes some extra on Bartlett throughout the year.
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Back in his Chicago days Brent was know as "Preacher Man".
You look at the entries and ask "Where is Holland"?
"Ah he is off on one of his Sabbaticals".
Very true but a big time gambler with a few of these horseploppers on this forum. He finishes exactly where he wants to if you know what I mean. Those drivers at Yonkers make more money by finishing third forth and fifth then if they won. You get my drift. Bet on the other guys and just around in a circle and make big money. Plus th3 betting money is all tax free.
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Finally, someone who understands how harness racing really works. Just think about how many drivers retired in their early fifties and lived still living good without ever doing anything for an income.
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Frank Popfinger walked away loaded. Within a year opened a village Italian restaurant in Manhattan. Great place. that takes cash.
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Many of them walked away loaded.
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And many, Far too many walked away too late, back in the bush leagues or with nothing. Not to mention all the ones that pissed it all away on booze and coke. Earning and keeping are two vastly different things.
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Many of them walked away loaded.
Carmine, Lucien
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Marsha's dad - off shore abortion clinics just something I'd toss in
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Who is the announcer tonight at Yonkers? DAM HE'S GOOD!
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Speaking of Yonkers, appears purses are dropped 2k-4k per race starting Monday Oct 30.
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Speaking of Yonkers, appears purses are dropped 2k-4k per race starting Monday Oct 30.
Welcome to winter racing!!
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But weren't winter drops in purses due to anticipated declines in attendance due to weather? No one goes now anyway. All from the comfort of our homes. So??
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But weren't winter drops in purses due to anticipated declines in attendance due to weather? No one goes now anyway. All from the comfort of our homes. So??
They boost the purses I. The summer when there are a ton of track’s racing to keep the horses there. Once a lot of other tracks stop they lower them to conserve purse money for next year
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tmbz1
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As far as Bent. His heart hasn’t been in driving the last 4-5 years. But it is what he knows how to do and makes more than he could getting any other job. He usually only drives a few days a week
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That seems very unfair to the owners, trainers and bettors. If the fire inside has gone out, step aside. He can bet on his "coworkers" from home.
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That seems very unfair to the owners, trainers and bettors. If the fire inside has gone out, step aside. He can bet on his "coworkers" from home.
The trainers that use him know what is up. He usually gets them a paycheck. As far as betting on coworkers that would be a fools mission. I know a few on here think every bad drive is settlng up a race. But let’s be honest the pools no longer support stiffing to cash a ticket. 1/2,the races at YR the purse is higher that the whole betting pool.
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Whatever his story is, he appears over matched at YR and should get out if he doesn't wanna do it anymore.
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I doubt that will happen. He knocks down $200k a year working 3-4 nights a week. Lots and f other worse drivers out there. Personally he has done well for me and always brings me back a horse to race again next week
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I doubt that will happen. He knocks down $200k a year working 3-4 nights a week. Lots and f other worse drivers out there. Personally he has done well for me and always brings me back a horse to race again next week
Great point! The purse structure at your home track becomes irrelevant when your driver runs your horses into the ground every start! 11.wp
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And here am I, retired after 45 years of rubbing, training and owning and all this time i have been suffering under the delusion that the point of the whole fucking thing was to win races. That's why, lacking the nerve and skill set to drive, I always used the best drivers i could find, who tried to win for me as often as they could, or at least make it look good when they lost. I acknowledge that it is important to have a horse to race week after week, explaining why Walter Case drove for me exactly once ever ( he won, btw ), YR/RR I did just fine with Herve, Luc, Marohn, Sonny and Irvine. If I was after Holland's objectives and those of some of the people on here who wanna tell me how he makes 200k a year, blah, blah, blah I could have used stiffs like Cormier, Jay Randall and Joe Marsh ( we used to call him the policeman ). I have learned more about what I don't know in 5 months here than 45 years on the backstretch.
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Someone earlier in the thread said Brent's heart hasn't been in driving the last 4 - 5 years. If true, that's a mighty long time and i simply said that seems very unfair to all involved. Just like a marriage to me. If your heart isn't in it, what's the point of going through the motions?
One race does not prove a thing, but can you really explain his drive in the 8th race last night rationally?
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Someone earlier in the thread said Brent's heart hasn't been in driving the last 4 - 5 years. If true, that's a mighty long time and i simply said that seems very unfair to all involved. Just like a marriage to me. If your heart isn't in it, what's the point of going through the motions?
One race does not prove a thing, but can you really explain his drive in the 8th race last night rationally?
I don’t watch Yonkers much but. Since you watching are you telling me Sears does much better there? HOF driver and looks brain dead in most overnights. Not saying Brent is HOF material but he is adequate and usually ends up in top 5-6 at Yonkers every year
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Someone earlier in the thread said Brent's heart hasn't been in driving the last 4 - 5 years. If true, that's a mighty long time and i simply said that seems very unfair to all involved. Just like a marriage to me. If your heart isn't in it, what's the point of going through the motions?
One race does not prove a thing, but can you really explain his drive in the 8th race last night rationally?
From the race lines he sat in 2 hole with 18/1 shot behind favorite. Favorite stops in his face. Maybe he should of pulled at the 1/2 on favorite?
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I’m guessing you are not talking about race 8 from Tuesday 10/24. 18/1 from the rail you are not driving a beast
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As they approach the gate he is lallygagging, then steps on the gas after half-assing it outta there, stuffs everyone except Jason. Ok, then Jasons horse caves into Brent's face after battling the parked horse who just keeps coming. Of course, he shouldn't pull on Jason earlier, but what's the excuse for being so oblivious mid stretch that Jason's horse is backing into yours that you double your horse up causing him to throw a boot, swerve inside the pylons and then just get around Jason approaching the wire damn near hooking a wheel. That's what i was talking about. Brain dead, indifferent driving. reminds me of another stiff that ventured out here after getting in trouble out west. Greg Grismore..yuck!
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As they approach the gate he is lallygagging, then steps on the gas after half-assing it outta there, stuffs everyone except Jason. Ok, then Jasons horse caves into Brent's face after battling the parked horse who just keeps coming. Of course, he shouldn't pull on Jason earlier, but what's the excuse for being so oblivious mid stretch that Jason's horse is backing into yours that you double your horse up causing him to throw a boot, swerve inside the pylons and then just get around Jason approaching the wire damn near hooking a wheel. That's what i was talking about. Brain dead, indifferent driving. reminds me of another stiff that ventured out here after getting in trouble out west. Greg Grismore..yuck!
Jason’s horse stops 2 pylons before stretch. Brent’s had to grab his horse up or run him over. Look at Jason at last turn pylon. Once he lost his momentum Brent was out of the race. Again there is a reason he was 18/1 from the rail. We don’t always agree but I have always respected you but you way off base here. You need a better example to show a terrible driver
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All good buddy.No point going round and round. You say grab up. I say double up. same thing. I respect you as well and say so in a different thread right now. 73cv.2
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All good buddy.No point going round and round. You say grab up. I say double up. same thing. I respect you as well and say so in a different thread right now. 73cv.2
I guess if he knocks Jason out of the bike and runs him over he will have better mounts for a bit.
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On a different note - 2nd race at YR Open 36k. First quarter 26.3, last quarter 29.1 We used to call that "inside out" racing. Highest purse of the night and I guarantee that will be the slowest last quarter of the night.
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I don’t get why this conversation is all about Brent Holland and all the negativity. If he is so bad then why hasn’t anyone brought up the 6 other regulars that have a lower UDRS? Brent is at .236 this year at YR. The other 6…LaChance .218, Marohn Jr .213, Siegelman .207, Dube .198, Boyd .159 and Smith .150. I again point out that he will earn $200,000-$250,000 personally at YR. I do not recall him in any kind of trouble nor is he ever in the news. Ok there are are better drivers at YR and we all know who they are. So what? These 5 better drivers don’t win every race. Most races have 7-8 starters and the trainers can pick from many other drivers but Holland gets the call more time than not. Is he a future HOF driver no but he isn’t in the bum of the week club either.
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I don’t get why this conversation is all about Brent Holland and all the negativity. If he is so bad then why hasn’t anyone brought up the 6 other regulars that have a lower UDRS? Brent is at .236 this year at YR. The other 6…LaChance .218, Marohn Jr .213, Siegelman .207, Dube .198, Boyd .159 and Smith .150. I again point out that he will earn $200,000-$250,000 personally at YR. I do not recall him in any kind of trouble nor is he ever in the news. Ok there are are better drivers at YR and we all know who they are. So what? These 5 better drivers don’t win every race. Most races have 7-8 starters and the trainers can pick from many other drivers but Holland gets the call more time than not. Is he a future HOF driver no but he isn’t in the bum of the week club either.
That was my point
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On a different note - 2nd race at YR Open 36k. First quarter 26.3, last quarter 29.1 We used to call that "inside out" racing. Highest purse of the night and I guarantee that will be the slowest last quarter of the night.
This makes my point in the drivers betting angle. 36k purse. 20k total in pools. There is no bet you could possibly make to make up the difference in the 5%. And hopefully no one chirps about offshore. They will shut your account off of you win to often
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On a different note - 2nd race at YR Open 36k. First quarter 26.3, last quarter 29.1 We used to call that "inside out" racing. Highest purse of the night and I guarantee that will be the slowest last quarter of the night.
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Out of curiosity what were the nw/last 5 conditions when you last raced there? With the purses nw5k or 10k really encourage not winning or going a month without a check
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NW 6k, NW 9k/optional 27k claimer, NW 11k /optional 33k
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NW 6k, NW 9k/optional 27k claimer, NW 11k /optional 33k
Did that make sense with the purses? Right now nw5k goes for 12k. With a bottom level horse you won 1 you gotta go without a check for 5 starts to compete. For me that was 6 weeks. I never raced 1 more than 3 weeks in a row if I could help it. I mostly had youngsters and would sell after a few starts. But the last 1 I trained far exceeded expectations and became part of the family. I hated the idea of going to the races knowing we were not getting any money that night. BTW he is retired and I’m still feeding him. Lol. But he fed me for 7 years
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I see what you are asking. Well the NW6k/opt 18k Cl. went for 9000 purse, the the next went for 11000 purse, the next 13000 purse and son on. I was very heavily into claimers and hardly ever rode the conditioned elevator because I wanted to be my own race secy.
If i had a 3 or 4 year old they were usually hanging out in the NW 2, NW 3 or 12.500 lifetime or NW 4 or 25,000 lifetime guys would hang out in those classes all year finishing 2nd, 3rd, 2nd, 3rd and on and on
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That is what I was looking for. These days a lot of the “stiffing” is the race secretary fault. Drivers and trainers just trying to keep their horses competitive
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tmbz1
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And here am I, retired after 45 years of rubbing, training and owning and all this time i have been suffering under the delusion that the point of the whole fucking thing was to win races. That's why, lacking the nerve and skill set to drive, I always used the best drivers i could find, who tried to win for me as often as they could, or at least make it look good when they lost. I acknowledge that it is important to have a horse to race week after week, explaining why Walter Case drove for me exactly once ever ( he won, btw ), YR/RR I did just fine with Herve, Luc, Marohn, Sonny and Irvine. If I was after Holland's objectives and those of some of the people on here who wanna tell me how he makes 200k a year, blah, blah, blah I could have used stiffs like Cormier, Jay Randall and Joe Marsh ( we used to call him the policeman ). I have learned more about what I don't know in 5 months here than 45 years on the backstretch.
Why bring Jay into this discussion?
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Why bring Jay into this discussion?
Easy Mrs Randall, all is good
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Because in those days upon arriving at YR, he was a stiff from jumpstreet who fell right in line with the crew.