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General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: Here they come on March 14, 2020, 12:02:29 PM
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Since most people on this site think anyone who’s making money in this sport is cheating, I’m dying to know the names of the trainers who you think are making money consistently who you think don’t cheat.
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This should be worth a few laughs!
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Since most people on this site think anyone who’s making money in this sport is cheating, I’m dying to know the names of the trainers who you think are making money consistently who you think don’t cheat.
Ake Svanstedt
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Yea his trotters go in 49 clean as a whistle!
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Burke
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Ake Svanstedt
https://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&artikel=3263179
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not possible for a trainer to do well without cheating
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Burke
ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
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Im dying to know the names of the trainers who you think are making money consistently who you think dont cheat.
Clint Galbraith …. Oh wait .. that was 40 years ago
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Rabbi just made my point. That’s the mentality of
Almost everyone on this site. If your doing well your
cheating. No one can make money in harness racing
Who’s not a criminal. I just think most people are jealous
of the ones who do and assume and accuse
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Well you are a fucking idiot then! Someone racing clean isn`t beating someone who isn`t. The commissions letting the big trainers off so many times made everyone think they had to join them or get out of the game. Until now, most of them risked a slap on the wrist or a fine. This might change things but it`s probably too late.
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Personally I think Croghan is perhaps the cleanest of the "successful" trainers but that's jmo
Below is the current list of highest earning trainers for this year as shown by USTA
I have put them in order or earnings highest at the top.
This list will contain a lot of the suspects .. might be time for some of those on this list to try to prove innocence as they will be presumed guilty
Burke, Ronald J "Ron"
Allard, Rene M
Harris , Andrew S
Banca, Richard J
Moreau , Richard
Auciello , Carmen E
Surick, Nick
Di Domenico, Scott D
King Jr, James T "Jim"
Morgan Jr, Virgil V
Bongiorno, Jennifer L
Columbo, Joseph D
Rhoades, William
Davis, Dylan P
Cullipher, Jeffrey W "Jeff"
Redder, Peter A
Loney, C B "C Brian"
Baillargeon, Benoit O
Bucci, Ricky A
Betts, Scott R
Godinez, Jose L
Givens, Melvin W "Wayne"
George, Scott T "Tyler"
Schillaci, Samuel J "Sam"
Height, Christopher J "Chris"
Simpson, Dirk
Tarantino, Tracy
Hundertpfund Jr, Joseph C
Green, Joshua L "Josh"
Ford, Mark S
Alexander, Travis M
DeVita, Nicholas F
Norman, Richard J "R. Nifty"
Lorentzon, Anette K
Gillis , Jeffrey R
Bendis, Randall B "Randy"
Kauffman, Kayne K
Fellows, Robert D
Hitchcock, Michael G
Hoerdt, Kelly O
Galliers, Brady E
Hudson, Lance H
Blumenfeld, Paul
Hall, Michael P
Roegner Jessica L
Palone, Michael A
Cassar, Darran F
Connor Jr, Charles E "Chuck"
Parker, Norm D
Smith, Perry W
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no titans your the idiot! Im talking clean vs clean. there's just some trainers who are better. not because there cheating. but the majority of people think if there successful they have to be cheating.
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While on the subject of innuendo, the shots on social media trying to tie Rene Allard into this mess were totally unnecessary. To be perfectly frank, his eight horses at Pocono were scratched because the training facility was shut down. No one could come or go. Therefore, there were many horses that couldnt get to the track. It really bothers me the amount of negativity there is in our sport and how quickly we jump the gun and pronounce evil.........Just ask the Guru
Social Media was correct. You should at least mention that the "training facility" was Banca's. Not anything to do with Pocono... and the Guru starts shit too. He has ruined lives with his column.
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While on the subject of innuendo, the shots on social media trying to tie Rene Allard into this mess were totally unnecessary. To be perfectly frank, his eight horses at Pocono were scratched because the training facility was shut down. No one could come or go. Therefore, there were many horses that couldn’t get to the track. It really bothers me the amount of negativity there is in our sport and how quickly we jump the gun and pronounce evil.........Just ask the Guru
Are you saying he is not involved in this mess?
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While on the subject of innuendo, the shots on social media trying to tie Rene Allard into this mess were totally unnecessary. To be perfectly frank, his eight horses at Pocono were scratched because the training facility was shut down. No one could come or go. Therefore, there were many horses that couldn’t get to the track. It really bothers me the amount of negativity there is in our sport and how quickly we jump the gun and pronounce evil.........Just ask the Guru
Friend, you may have missed the memo but there is a Federal Indictment against Mr Allard.. This isn’t social media nonsense.
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Ake Svanstedt
ngc3
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There is a list of current successful trainers based on 2020 earnings on page 1 of this thread.
For anyone who truly wants to give a good response to the topic here tell us who you think are the cleanest ones from that list
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No, you`re the idiot. What clean trainers are you referring to? Which clean trainers can you compare to eachother? Who do you know that`s clean and making money in this game?
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There are plenty of clean trainers in racing. Unfortunately not too many know there names because the media only hypes super high percentage guys
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clean trainers all dead or out f buissness
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According to you there aren’t any, so no need to name any.
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Your mentality is if any team or individual consistently defeats another they are cheaters. Your logic titan is ridiculous. Like I said. Idiotic
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There’s not one trainer that anyone can name that someone will say isn’t a cheat, so naming any is a waste of time. Too many narrow minded individuals on this forum.
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According to you there aren’t any, so no need to name any.
You are the fuckhead running your mouth but you can`t name one! Not one making money anyway. Fuck you, I raced horses in about 10 states for 35 years and know most of these guys. You aren`t going to tell me any different.
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Rabbi just made my point. That’s the mentality of
Almost everyone on this site. If your doing well your
cheating. No one can make money in harness racing
Who’s not a criminal. I just think most people are jealous
of the ones who do and assume and accuse
This is a very complicated situation because the real hay and oats trainers fall or fell by the wayside. Everyone likes to have a little edge, but your truly gifted horsemen are gone. They have been replaced by monsters. It started with the likes of Robinson and Gelrod etc. It would take freak of nature horses for an all-natural trainer to win races to such an extent that he would win enough to attract any attention. It's not jealousy. It's frustration. What if you worked all day with water and horse manure and you get yourself a nice decent lawn. But your neighbor used specially designed and dangerous chemicals for every inch of his lawn and it was a lush green gorgeous weed free lawn that everyone loved to look at. How would you feel?
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Agree carnival, not everyone does things the same way though. Doesn’t mean there a chemist or juicing. Some horseman are simply gonna be better than others. I’m glad we’re cleaning house with these bad apples. Hope they get some more. I’m tired of these guys taking money out of my pocket. Just want a level playing field
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Speaking of Gelrod, how many bottles of cobalt was he selling while hooked up with Bryce's Brotherlaw Sam D. Answer: 1000's and yet Bryce never once caught Gelrod passing off brown paper bag across the street from NJ training centers. Anyway according to Jeff there were only 2 people that supplied the entire industry and the business is now officially clean. New Jeff can eradicate the Corona Virus and save the world. Jeff for president!
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They (we) all cheat to some extent!
Agree totally
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Ake Svanstedt
I guess shocking your horses doesn’t count?? ngc3 ngc3
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There have been two indictments with Allard and Surick totalling 13 dead horses because of the shit they gave them. Someone has a beef about social media and jumping the gun. Whatever. These fucks will get some plea deal but not before jail time, fines, and being barred for life training a horse.
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Not true. I know many trainers that literally race on hay and oats and actually do well. Sure, if they blew their heads off, they may be even better but they race clean. FACT!
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Again, WHO???? Another one who knows a bunch but can`t name one!
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As one of the more astute plopsters alluded to, you have to clearly define exactly what cheating is! States furnish extensive lists of therapeutic drugs with acceptable withdrawal times! Are you a cheater if you use this information to try and remain competitive? I say no! Furthermore, is a trainer a crook if he administers himself because his vet, or any vet is unavailable? Once again, I don't think so! Are you a thief if you dispense illegal pain killers or blood builders or worse yet, unknown substances that could harm or possibly kill! I wouldn't feel that I have to answer that! All you holier than thou people out there that feel differently should be aware that despite the extensive list of indictments, there are honest, caring trainers out there who treat their horses like royalty! Horses are among the most noble of animals on the planet they generally take what people dish out and only ask to be fed and cared for! And by the way, honest trainers do win races and always pay their bills using the tools that are available, mainly horsemanship and classification!
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THAT'S RIGHT, WE NEED TO CLEAN THIS SPORT UP AND GET RID OF THE CHEAT'S. SOONER THE BETTER ngc3
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I was in the business for 35 years and know the difference between the theraputic drugs and the blood builders, steroids, painkillers, etc. that are over the line. Yea, there are trainers who just use the theraputics like dex, bute, banamine, robaxin, etc. but they aren`t beating the guys using the next big thing. I went through the shake years and most all tried it. I went through the EPO years and most that could get there hands on it tried it. The honest guys are gone! Most of the people who know these guys if they are connected tried this shit as well. They were dealing it by the sounds of the recordings. There is going to be a lot more on the list if this is a complete investigation and it certainly looks that way. I am definitely not holier than thou, just speaking the truth. I raced at about 10-15 tracks in my day and met a lot of people in the game. The reason most horsemen turn a blind eye or worse yet stand up and protect the guys with the edge is because you want the edge yourself. It`s been going on forever. The worst thing that happened to racing was the increase in purses because all it did was allow the big players to come up with bigger chemistry sets and push the honest guys out. If they didn`t get the slots, the business would have been dead long ago. Maybe it`s finally time to bury it for good. This is one group that was racing in both standardbred and the runners using this shit and no + tests! How many other big name guys are doing the same? Even the vets all come up with recipes that they give to their customers. Quit with your "holier than thou" bullshit and the good honest trainer crap because you are full of shit!
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Fellows had a good 2 year old die in training, on the track at Mohawk I think? What was his name, Keystone something??? Anyways, is a 2year old having a heart attack commonl?
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Fellows had a good 2 year old die in training, on the track at Mohawk I think? What was his name, Keystone something??? Anyways, is a 2year old having a heart attack commonl?
Heart defects in 2 yr olds is not uncommin, it happens...
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That's right Dickhead. I do know a bunch of honest horsemen and because they race clean, they have earned the right to privacy unlike the cheating POS who forfeited anonymity by breaking the law. Apparently you don't know any because you were or are a cheating POS who surrounded himself with cheating POS. BLOW ME DOUCHE BAG
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I would think you would be helping them out and not hurting them by giving their name.
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Agree carnival, not everyone does things the same way though. Doesn’t mean there a chemist or juicing. Some horseman are simply gonna be better than others. I’m glad we’re cleaning house with these bad apples. Hope they get some more. I’m tired of these guys taking money out of my pocket. Just want a level playing field
It's true, some clean horseman are better than other clean horseman, but given any group of say, 10 totally clean trainers of varying ability that we'll say are from slightly below average, to very good, the differences in performance would still be moderate. Assuming all use good quality feed and hay, competent farriers, and good honest vets, and all have programs of 4 to 5 miles of jogging a day, with a training mile mid week, it is mathematically impossible for any one of these hypothetical trainers to improve upon any other, by more than one second, at the most.
On a totally level playing field, the "good" trainers would bat around .290, and the less talented ones would range from .220 to .250. That's what an honest racetrack leader board should look like, because devoid of drugs, it becomes all about the natural ability of the horse. The trainer's influence in a clean game would be 10-15 percent of the equation, at most.
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I was in the business for 35 years and know the difference between the theraputic drugs and the blood builders, steroids, painkillers, etc. that are over the line. Yea, there are trainers who just use the theraputics like dex, bute, banamine, robaxin, etc. but they aren`t beating the guys using the next big thing. I went through the shake years and most all tried it. I went through the EPO years and most that could get there hands on it tried it. The honest guys are gone! Most of the people who know these guys if they are connected tried this shit as well. They were dealing it by the sounds of the recordings. There is going to be a lot more on the list if this is a complete investigation and it certainly looks that way. I am definitely not holier than thou, just speaking the truth. I raced at about 10-15 tracks in my day and met a lot of people in the game. The reason most horsemen turn a blind eye or worse yet stand up and protect the guys with the edge is because you want the edge yourself. It`s been going on forever. The worst thing that happened to racing was the increase in purses because all it did was allow the big players to come up with bigger chemistry sets and push the honest guys out. If they didn`t get the slots, the business would have been dead long ago. Maybe it`s finally time to bury it for good. This is one group that was racing in both standardbred and the runners using this shit and no + tests! How many other big name guys are doing the same? Even the vets all come up with recipes that they give to their customers. Quit with your "holier than thou" bullshit and the good honest trainer crap because you are full of shit!
I can see what kind of trainer you must have been! 10,000 reasons why your horses couldn't function rather than looking in the mirror! Always everyone else's fault! You think I'm full of shit because that's all you know!
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Agree nostrathomas, but also not just the trainer. Some farriers better than others, some vets are better than others. If you have a trainer who has a better overall team, that could what separates them from the others. You mentioned 1 second better. That’s 5 lengths. 👍
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Jim Mullinex (trainer of A Rock-n-Roll Dance)
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It's true, some clean horseman are better than other clean horseman, but given any group of say, 10 totally clean trainers of varying ability that we'll say are from slightly below average, to very good, the differences in performance would still be moderate. Assuming all use good quality feed and hay, competent farriers, and good honest vets, and all have programs of 4 to 5 miles of jogging a day, with a training mile mid week, it is mathematically impossible for any one of these hypothetical trainers to improve upon any other, by more than one second, at the most.
On a totally level playing field, the "good" trainers would bat around .290, and the less talented ones would range from .220 to .250. That's what an honest racetrack leader board should look like, because devoid of drugs, it becomes all about the natural ability of the horse. The trainer's influence in a clean game would be 10-15 percent of the equation, at most.
The way condition races are written, it would support your theory.
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Heart defects in 2 yr olds is not uncommin, it happens...
Thanks Rob ngc3
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Someone told me Lou Pena was clean, I can't remember who..
Oh wait, it was Lou Pena...
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Someone told me Lou Pena was clean, I can't remember who..
Oh wait, it was Lou Pena...
0 Positives. ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
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Dan Noble
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It's true, some clean horseman are better than other clean horseman, but given any group of say, 10 totally clean trainers of varying ability that we'll say are from slightly below average, to very good, the differences in performance would still be moderate. Assuming all use good quality feed and hay, competent farriers, and good honest vets, and all have programs of 4 to 5 miles of jogging a day, with a training mile mid week, it is mathematically impossible for any one of these hypothetical trainers to improve upon any other, by more than one second, at the most.
On a totally level playing field, the "good" trainers would bat around .290, and the less talented ones would range from .220 to .250. That's what an honest racetrack leader board should look like, because devoid of drugs, it becomes all about the natural ability of the horse. The trainer's influence in a clean game would be 10-15 percent of the equation, at most.
So good trainers would roughly win at a rate that would be similar to pure random? With no consideration to classification, purchasing power, and drivers services? It's a Pareto distribution, numbers won't change much even if you eliminated all cheating.
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They all give alittle something XTRA when they need cash. FACT
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There was a grey gelding named FOLGER who was juiced a few times and won.
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Dan Noble
Surely, you jest.
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I have a question if the driver/jockey who is employed by a trainer for first call services an there knowingly driving juiced up animals are they as guilty as the trainer’s they drive for???????
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Paul Jessop been clean for 10 years doesn’t win . Was dirtY many years ago as well as his father never lost . In Canada Yves Filion clean wins rarely only when he breeds a monster
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Guess you don’t know them that well...
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Is equipoise cheating?
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NO
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NO
ANABOLIC STEROID
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Dan Noble
LOL
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Is equipoise cheating?
ABSOLUTLY
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ABSOLUTLY
Then everybody in the last 40 years who enjoyed success was a cheat then
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Then everybody in the last 40 years who enjoyed success was a cheat then
Many guys get a positive for Bolenone, because it has been banned since 1970's used alot to bulk up stock,, having a half life of around 12 days...this is where guys get in trouble. Use a banned substance and you are YES cheating.