HORSEPLOP.COM
General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: Maria Howard/Plano on October 07, 2023, 08:21:16 PM
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First off we’re told all of the rules are on the claim form. WRONG! They change the rules when you claim a horse to fit their needs. Okay so most tracks want you to stay 60 days after the claim and not race that horse anywhere else. I get that. But now you can’t enter YOUR horse that YOU paid for with YOUR money in the class that you want. Yes that is what the Hoosier race secretary is saying. So if you claim one for 20k and you want to race in a 50k claimer, you cannot do it. You can only raise up two levels or lower two levels. Can you actually believe this shit. So not only after you invest your own money, you now have to deal with management telling you where you can and cannot enter. How is this possible that they are allowed to interfere with your business operations and not get sued? You try talking with anyone and the answer is if you don’t like it then go race someplace else. Also you cannot sell the horse for 60 days either. So anyone who is thinking about claiming at Hoosier, don’t do it. You have to allow them to use your horse where they feel he’s competitive or needed. Can’t race at a different track, cant sell and can’t race in the class you want to race after you paid for the horse. Any of your horseploppers who are thinking about coming to hoosier to claim a horse don’t bother. They don’t want your business or any new owners coming here.
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Oh yeah and if the race secretary doesn’t write the race, or it doesn’t fill, you’re still fucked. So if you claim a horse and there isn’t a race written or the race doesn’t fill, you are expected to just keep paying the bills and wait because you can’t do a thing about it. FUCK YOU HOOSIER!!!
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Say he is a total crook or the most honest horseman in the game.....I have no idea and don't care.....
but Hoosier is the last track I would be looking to race a claimer with Tyler George present
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Say he is a total crook or the most honest horseman in the game.....I have no idea and don't care.....
but Hoosier is the last track I would be looking to race a claimer with Tyler George present
You got that right and Tyler tells that race secretary what to do and he does it. Horrible drivers colony and nothing more than B track racing. Lots of politics between those B drivers and average trainers. I’ll tell you one thing. There is no way that race secretary would tell me what class I can or can’t enter my horse in. Now there is no way they can enforce some kinda rule like that.
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Rucker was telling my friend that Peine hasn't a clue about how to be a race secretary. "Amateur hour" was what he said. Peine was a useless horseman here 30 years ago. Victor Pegues + Gary O'Brien were better.
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Rucker was telling my friend that Peine hasn't a clue about how to be a race secretary. "Amateur hour" was what he said. Peine was a useless horseman here 30 years ago. Victor Pegues + Gary O'Brien were better.
Wrong prime. The guy your talking about was Jeff LeVine but Hoosier race secretary is his son scott. He’s a real ahole and nothing like his dad.
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Sometimes it pays to read the fine print before setting up shop! At times you will find that you can benefit, other times you won't! No regulations should be a problem if are thorough. Attention to details in this game,is what separates the winners and loosers!
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Sometimes it pays to read the fine print before setting up shop! At times you will find that you can benefit, other times you won't! No regulations should be a problem if are thorough. Attention to details in this game,is what separates the winners and loosers!
I agree but how can anyone tell you how to run your business. I mean I think of it like this. If I buy a business like a dry cleaners how can anyone tell me how much to charge to dry clean a shirt or pair of pants. I mean claiming a horse is like buying a business. I would think it’s very wrong for the race secretary tell you what class you can or can’t enter them at. That’s just plain wrong in my opinion.
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Can someone explain to this old horse trainer just why you would claim a horse and want to then enter it up three or more classes?
Seams to me the race sec is
(A) Saving you from yourself.
(B) Saving his own butt by not allowing a non competive horse to clog up a race.
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Please go and read all the condition sheets in North America today. The race secretaries tell you how they will do their business at each track!! That simple. Don’t like the rules, don’t race there!
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Meadows I believe still requires you to raise one class when you claim for two weeks. SCD will not allow you to drop horse a class if the horse was 1,2,3. Each track has there own rules. I to think it's bullshit that they can dictate where you race your horse but they will hide behind there private property rights.
That being said I do question why you would claim one for 20k and want to jump to a 50K? That screams "we are loading this thing up and the other trainer is complete idiot"
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I’ve seen horses get claimed multiple weeks fir the same price week after week. Hmmm
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The number of people that fail to learn the nuances from track to track is mind boggling. Some tracks allow for things that others don't,and vice-versa!Don't operate your business with your eyes wide shut,or you could get "claimed out"!
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They may have changed but back in the day lumpy tom leisure made you jump one class when you claimed.
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They may have changed but back in the day lumpy tom leisure made you jump one class when you claimed.
Back in the day, in the tbreds, you had to raise the horse 20% in claiming price.
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First off we’re told all of the rules are on the claim form. WRONG! They change the rules when you claim a horse to fit their needs. Okay so most tracks want you to stay 60 days after the claim and not race that horse anywhere else. I get that. But now you can’t enter YOUR horse that YOU paid for with YOUR money in the class that you want. Yes that is what the Hoosier race secretary is saying. So if you claim one for 20k and you want to race in a 50k claimer, you cannot do it. You can only raise up two levels or lower two levels. Can you actually believe this shit. So not only after you invest your own money, you now have to deal with management telling you where you can and cannot enter. How is this possible that they are allowed to interfere with your business operations and not get sued? You try talking with anyone and the answer is if you don’t like it then go race someplace else. Also you cannot sell the horse for 60 days either. So anyone who is thinking about claiming at Hoosier, don’t do it. You have to allow them to use your horse where they feel he’s competitive or needed. Can’t race at a different track, cant sell and can’t race in the class you want to race after you paid for the horse. Any of your horseploppers who are thinking about coming to hoosier to claim a horse don’t bother. They don’t want your business or any new owners coming here.
Why not just race somewhere else if you don't like their rules?
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I think Rick Plano’s second wife doesn’t have an option to change tracks. First the Plano’s live near Hoosier. Secondly the last time I saw Plano at Pompano he could barely walk so where is he going? Third Rick is around 72 years old. Does he really care about claiming rules at Hoosier after all the years he’s been at this game and his stage of life? I don’t know who the second Mrs Plano is but I think she should just suck it up with all these claiming comments.
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I think Rick Plano’s second wife doesn’t have an option to change tracks. First the Plano’s live near Hoosier. Secondly the last time I saw Plano at Pompano he could barely walk so where is he going? Third Rick is around 72 years old. Does he really care about claiming rules at Hoosier after all the years he’s been at this game and his stage of life? I don’t know who the second Mrs Plano is but I think she should just suck it up with all these claiming comments.
So, I am an owner and race horses at e.g. Northeast tracks (Yonkers, Meadowlands, Plainridge, Pocono etc.) I claim a horse at Hoosier. How are they going to stop me from racing that horse at another track within 60 days?? Is this reciprocal? Will Scott Warren tell me I can't race at the Meadowlands??
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If you are stabled on the track I think it is enforceable. If off track probably not.
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So, I am an owner and race horses at e.g. Northeast tracks (Yonkers, Meadowlands, Plainridge, Pocono etc.) I claim a horse at Hoosier. How are they going to stop me from racing that horse at another track within 60 days?? Is this reciprocal? Will Scott Warren tell me I can't race at the Meadowlands??
Every track honors the 60 day claiming rule
Learn the game
Thks
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Should only be 30 days to begin with like it used to be. Not saying this is worthy of the Supreme Court, but I do wonder if an arbitrary rule this would pass constitutional muster if challenged in court. May also be in violation of restraint of trade laws.
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Every track honors the 60 day claiming rule
Learn the game
Thks
The first part of your comment is an answer; the second part is insulting. I owned many, many horses in the late 60's through the mid 90's. I claimed at least 25 of them and never had any issue as to where they would race next (albeit, most of the time they did stay at the track they were claimed from.) I understand rules change, and haven't claimed a horse in 25+ years, so was asking to "learn the game"...not to get a snide comment.
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I don't take Lucpark seriously and I told him that yesterday when he said IMS should have been on the lead. As we all saw, the horse was either sick, unprepared to race or just plain had a "bad day". How was IMS ever seeing the lead in that derby to the half yesterday? Anyway, The snide comments seem to come from the "internet Jimmy The Greeks" on here, never the horseman or owners. Yeah, I know Luc has fractions of horses here and there. meaningless to me.
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The first part of your comment is an answer; the second part is insulting. I owned many, many horses in the late 60's through the mid 90's. I claimed at least 25 of them and never had any issue as to where they would race next (albeit, most of the time they did stay at the track they were claimed from.) I understand rules change, and haven't claimed a horse in 25+ years, so was asking to "learn the game"...not to get a snide comment.
You have to consider the source making the comment. God's gift to harness racing or so he thinks. Looks down on anyone who he doesn't agree with yet has to use a foot stool to see over the counter to order when he goes to Burger King!
73cv.2
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The first part of your comment is an answer; the second part is insulting. I owned many, many horses in the late 60's through the mid 90's. I claimed at least 25 of them and never had any issue as to where they would race next (albeit, most of the time they did stay at the track they were claimed from.) I understand rules change, and haven't claimed a horse in 25+ years, so was asking to "learn the game"...not to get a snide comment.
if your fckin feelings got hurt then dont post post stupid ass questions you already know the answer to if u owned so many claimers the last 25 yrs..
60 day rule is THE RULE ...
everywhere ..
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I’ve seen horses get claimed multiple weeks fir the same price week after week. Hmmm
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It’s called ‘rent a horse’! Once the original sales tax is paid, the next person(s) don’t have to pay the sales tax unless the horse has a higher claiming tag the next race.
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I’ve seen horses get claimed multiple weeks fir the same price week after week. Hmmm
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It’s called ‘rent a horse’! Once the original sales tax is paid, the next person(s) don’t have to pay the sales tax unless the horse has a higher claiming tag the next race.
tmbz1 tmbz1 The waived sales tax is pone of the few innovations, past 30 years, in this game that made alot of sense.
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Seriously Maria are you boning Rick on nights his wife isnt? ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
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I’ve seen horses get claimed multiple weeks fir the same price week after week. Hmmm
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It’s called ‘rent a horse’! Once the original sales tax is paid, the next person(s) don’t have to pay the sales tax unless the horse has a higher claiming tag the next race.
That was true at pompano, and only for the season. The following season (Oct- April or May), the tax started again.
Also, I don’t recall other tracks adding sales tax to a claim.
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When I was an owner in NJ we were charged sales tax if during the year it was a horse claimed for the first time. What most of us did was if charged tax we would drop into claimers like $50-$60K and put a price tag on the horse to cover the tax. Example claim a horse for $50K drop in the next time for $54,000. You would hope higher price horses entered for $60K so we didn’t get post 9 or 10.
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Should only be 30 days to begin with like it used to be. Not saying this is worthy of the Supreme Court, but I do wonder if an arbitrary rule this would pass constitutional muster if challenged in court. May also be in violation of restraint of trade laws.
Thank you ! Finally someone who gets it. I keep saying to myself I do know the concern of a horse shortage if someone comes in with big money and claims horses and leaves immediately for another track. But to tell me I can’t sell my horse or what class to enter in I have a BIG problem with. That has to maybe be race tampering or fixing by not allowing a person who is flooding the 60 day rule but not being allowed to enter in the class of their choice. Seems like race fixing or highly illegal but what do I know?
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When I was an owner in NJ we were charged sales tax if during the year it was a horse claimed for the first time. What most of us did was if charged tax we would drop into claimers like $50-$60K and put a price tag on the horse to cover the tax. Example claim a horse for $50K drop in the next time for $54,000. You would hope higher price horses entered for $60K so we didn’t get post 9 or 10.
That was a great strategy. But how do you feel about after=you claim a horse being told what class to race him at or tuff shut? That is the one that I really don’t understand how the race secretary can get away with. I look at it like you buy a restaurant and the city coming in and telling you that you cannot charge $5 for a slice of pizza. I’m like wtf? How can they allow any race secretary to interfere with their business investments?
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When I was an owner in NJ we were charged sales tax if during the year it was a horse claimed for the first time. What most of us did was if charged tax we would drop into claimers like $50-$60K and put a price tag on the horse to cover the tax. Example claim a horse for $50K drop in the next time for $54,000. You would hope higher price horses entered for $60K so we didn’t get post 9 or 10.
Yup. That was the MO in those days.
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Thank you ! Finally someone who gets it. I keep saying to myself I do know the concern of a horse shortage if someone comes in with big money and claims horses and leaves immediately for another track. But to tell me I can’t sell my horse or what class to enter in I have a BIG problem with. That has to maybe be race tampering or fixing by not allowing a person who is flooding the 60 day rule but not being allowed to enter in the class of their choice. Seems like race fixing or highly illegal but what do I know?
tmbz1 tmbz1
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So, I am an owner and race horses at e.g. Northeast tracks (Yonkers, Meadowlands, Plainridge, Pocono etc.) I claim a horse at Hoosier. How are they going to stop me from racing that horse at another track within 60 days?? Is this reciprocal? Will Scott Warren tell me I can't race at the Meadowlands??
The reason why it is 60 days now instead of 30 days is because the racetracks could have a shortage of horses if claimed horses left immediately. When Delaware put in slots years ago, the meadowlands was bombarded with the same problem that is going on today. Only today it isn’t as bad as it was in the past.
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That was a great strategy. But how do you feel about after=you claim a horse being told what class to race him at or tuff shut? That is the one that I really don’t understand how the race secretary can get away with. I look at it like you buy a restaurant and the city coming in and telling you that you cannot charge $5 for a slice of pizza. I’m like wtf? How can they allow any race secretary to interfere with their business investments?
Generally it is not the race secretary. It is written into the rules of racing from the commission. They changed the rules too where you had to raise them up in some jurisdictions because some do gooders got congress people ears and made them believe the rent a horse thing was bad for horses
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Generally it is not the race secretary. It is written into the rules of racing from the commission. They changed the rules too where you had to raise them up in some jurisdictions because some do gooders got congress people ears and made them believe the rent a horse thing was bad for horses
Again I have no problem with the raising up but Hoosier is the only place that won’t allow you to raise up or lower any more than two levels. Now where is that bullshit coming from? I should be able to raise up twenty levels if that’s what I want to do. And I should be able to lower a 40k claimed to 5k claimed if that’s what I want to do. This shit is ridiculous and it’s race fixing in my opinion and also interfering with my bus8ness investment.
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Again I have no problem with the raising up but Hoosier is the only place that won’t allow you to raise up or lower any more than two levels. Now where is that bullshit coming from? I should be able to raise up twenty levels if that’s what I want to do. And I should be able to lower a 40k claimed to 5k claimed if that’s what I want to do. This shit is ridiculous and it’s race fixing in my opinion and also interfering with my bus8ness investment.
why are you worried you own nothin u fckin idiot
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why are you worried you own nothin u fckin idiot
That’s not quite right. I own 50% of two horses with Gaskin. You on the other hand own 5-7% of 9 horses with overhiser putting up all of the dough. Don’t get it twisted my friend I don’t flap my jaws and act like a big shit used car salesmen. Grow the fuck you midget ass clown
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Again I have no problem with the raising up but Hoosier is the only place that won’t allow you to raise up or lower any more than two levels. Now where is that bullshit coming from? I should be able to raise up twenty levels if that’s what I want to do. And I should be able to lower a 40k claimed to 5k claimed if that’s what I want to do. This shit is ridiculous and it’s race fixing in my opinion and also interfering with my bus8ness investment.
How many horses have you ever seen that could move up more than 2 levels and be competitive first start?
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I should be able to raise up twenty levels if that’s what I want to do. And I should be able to lower a 40k claimed to 5k claimed if that’s what I want to do.
Do you or anyone also feel that way about qualifying races?
Like the flats, should the trainer be able to enter anytime he thinks the horse is ready?
I know this has been brought up at USTA meetings.
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Do you or anyone also feel that way about qualifying races?
Like the flats, should the trainer be able to enter anytime he thinks the horse is ready?
I know this has been brought up at USTA meetings.
I do. If the trainer enters the horse short or not ready, well then he is wasting his time and the owners money. I dont feel he is truly hurting anyone else.
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I do. If the trainer enters the horse short or not ready, well then he is wasting his time and the owners money. I dont feel he is truly hurting anyone else.
And unfortunately done poor sap is going to get screwed betting on them
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I only meant entering them "unready" to qualify
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Do you or anyone also feel that way about qualifying races?
Like the flats, should the trainer be able to enter anytime he thinks the horse is ready?
I know this has been brought up at USTA meetings.
Most places I watch the flats have to have an official workout before racing. No different than a qualifier