HORSEPLOP.COM
General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: goblue on March 27, 2024, 11:38:38 PM
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What is holding Hoosier Park back from achieving better handle numbers?
Meadowlands will always be #1, but in my opinion, Hoosier should be right with Mohawk competing for #2.
Full cards, competitive racing, fantastic facilities, very good track announcer, hosting major stake events, etc.
I simply do not understand how they continue to lag behind Northfield, for example, and their half-mile racing with a 1/5 favorite in every other race.
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It's a c track at best
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What is holding Hoosier Park back from achieving better handle numbers?
Meadowlands will always be #1, but in my opinion, Hoosier should be right with Mohawk competing for #2.
Full cards, competitive racing, fantastic facilities, very good track announcer, hosting major stake events, etc.
I simply do not understand how they continue to lag behind Northfield, for example, and their half-mile racing with a 1/5 favorite in every other race.
I agree with “almost” everything you say. Hoosier actually could be in the running for the top spot BUT they do little things that are just careless. Why do they insist on running races at the exact same time as their biggest competition? Drag a few minutes. Get a track enthusiast announcer. This guy is horrible. If you are playing multiple tracks you have no idea the gate is rolling until it’s too late. And who gives a fuck who the top three favorites are. I have even been playing Hoosier and got caught up handicapping the pick 4 and then I hear. “ 2-1 on blah , blah , blah 5/2 on blah and they are off”. Great job alerting us of post time you Baffoon
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I agree with “almost” everything you say. Hoosier actually could be in the running for the top spot BUT they do little things that are just careless. Why do they insist on running races at the exact same time as their biggest competition? Drag a few minutes. Get a track enthusiast announcer. This guy is horrible. If you are playing multiple tracks you have no idea the gate is rolling until it’s too late. And who gives a fuck who the top three favorites are. I have even been playing Hoosier and got caught up handicapping the pick 4 and then I hear. “ 2-1 on blah , blah , blah 5/2 on blah and they are off”. Great job alerting us of post time you Baffoon
What's "post time"?
When was the last time you have saw a race go off at the so called "Post Time"? Post Time usually means at least 3 minutes to go now days! If you get shut out it's your own damn faught
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Hoosier has a countdown clock, similar to the Meadowlands, that is very accurate and allows you to know exactly when the race is starting
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Hoosier has a countdown clock, similar to the Meadowlands, that is very accurate and allows you to know exactly when the race is starting
I’m in deep concentration handicapping. I’m not looking at the monitor. How about. “ 1 minute to post , don’t get shut out”.
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Big difference between Cleveland area and corn field Henderson Indiana, Cleveland area has some serious gambler's, Henderson not so much and never will be. ngc3
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allowing CAWs in might help
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What is holding Hoosier Park back from achieving better handle numbers?
Meadowlands will always be #1, but in my opinion, Hoosier should be right with Mohawk competing for #2.
Full cards, competitive racing, fantastic facilities, very good track announcer, hosting major stake events, etc.
I simply do not understand how they continue to lag behind Northfield, for example, and their half-mile racing with a 1/5 favorite in every other race.
Let me count the ways:
Poor driving colony. When Trace Tetrick is the ‘best’ driver and it gets worse from there. Not a good thing.
You don’t need a “passing lane” on a big track!
Track bias changes like the wind!
IMO average stock at best at the track. The driving colony doesn’t make it better.
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Let me count the ways:
Poor driving colony. When Trace Tetrick is the ‘best’ driver and it gets worse from there. Not a good thing.
You don’t need a “passing lane” on a big track!
Track bias changes like the wind!
I hate to break it to you. Hoosier stock can go anywhere and be competitive. ANYWHERE. I have seen it time and time again.
IMO average stock at best at the track. The driving colony doesn’t make it better.
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So you are telling all of us here that if we get a better trainer not necessarily a trainer that “enhances” horsepower by painkillers/other methods, we can actually improve a horse from here??
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Let me count the ways:
Poor driving colony. When Trace Tetrick is the ‘best’ driver and it gets worse from there. Not a good thing.
You don’t need a “passing lane” on a big track!
Track bias changes like the wind!
IMO average stock at best at the track. The driving colony doesn’t make it better.
BEST POST EVER ON PLOP. RAINMAN GETS IT. I KNOW PLENTY OF BIG GAMBLERS AND MOST OF THEM STAY AWAY FROM HOOSIER FOR A FEW REASONS. THE BIGGEST REASON IS THE DRIVERS COLONY AND THE SECOND REASON IS ITS JUST A HILLYBILLY AMISH FILLED TRACK THAT EVERYONE IS RELATED TO EACH OTHER. ITS IN THE MIDDLE OF A CORNFIELD AND THE PEOPLE RUNNING SHOW ARE A JOKE AND DONT HAVE A CLUE. TAKE THE RACE SECRETARY RIGHT ON DOWN TO THE GOOFY SECURITY GUARDS WHO REPORT A FLYING INSECT IF HE LOOKS SUSPICIOUS AND YOU HAVE HOOSIER PARK. THEY ARE GETTING BLOWN OUT OF THE WATER BY OHIO RACING AND YET THEY DO NOTHING TO TRY AND KEEP UP. HOPEFULLY WITHIN 5 YEARS THEY WILL BULLDOZE IT AND THE PROPERTY CAN GO BACK TO PRODUCING GREAT CORN. THEIR TOP FIVE TRAINERS AND DRIVERS COULDNT WIN RACES AT MONTICELLO OR FREEHOLD.
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Big difference between Cleveland area and corn field Henderson Indiana, Cleveland area has some serious gambler's, Henderson not so much and never will be. ngc3
Numbers don't lie!
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BEST POST EVER ON PLOP. RAINMAN GETS IT. I KNOW PLENTY OF BIG GAMBLERS AND MOST OF THEM STAY AWAY FROM HOOSIER FOR A FEW REASONS. THE BIGGEST REASON IS THE DRIVERS COLONY AND THE SECOND REASON IS ITS JUST A HILLYBILLY AMISH FILLED TRACK THAT EVERYONE IS RELATED TO EACH OTHER. ITS IN THE MIDDLE OF A CORNFIELD AND THE PEOPLE RUNNING SHOW ARE A JOKE AND DONT HAVE A CLUE. TAKE THE RACE SECRETARY RIGHT ON DOWN TO THE GOOFY SECURITY GUARDS WHO REPORT A FLYING INSECT IF HE LOOKS SUSPICIOUS AND YOU HAVE HOOSIER PARK. THEY ARE GETTING BLOWN OUT OF THE WATER BY OHIO RACING AND YET THEY DO NOTHING TO TRY AND KEEP UP. HOPEFULLY WITHIN 5 YEARS THEY WILL BULLDOZE IT AND THE PROPERTY CAN GO BACK TO PRODUCING GREAT CORN. THEIR TOP FIVE TRAINERS AND DRIVERS COULDNT WIN RACES AT MONTICELLO OR FREEHOLD.
Would be interesting to see what the top 5 trainers could do at other tracks in North America. Whether it's Monticello, Freehold, or the meadowlands, the ohio circuit including northfield as well as plainridge
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Looks too me like the top drivers and trainers do just fine in Ohio all winter. But maybe that is because the drivers there suck too. Lol
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Looks too me like the top drivers and trainers do just fine in Ohio all winter. But maybe that is because the drivers there suck too. Lol
HANDLE WAY BETTER IN OHIO AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN. HOOSIER LOCATION IS BAD AND THE DRIVERS THERE ARE JUST MINOR LEAGUERS. IF THEY EVER GET BETTER DRIVERS THEY WOULD FOR SURE DO BETTER. WHO WANTS TO BET ON DON EASH AND JOHN DELONG?
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Another track that can't seem to show pic3 payoffs. Weak.
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Look st the drivers colony and that pretty much should tell you all you need to know. Cal expo has better drivers.
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HANDLE WAY BETTER IN OHIO AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN. HOOSIER LOCATION IS BAD AND THE DRIVERS THERE ARE JUST MINOR LEAGUERS. IF THEY EVER GET BETTER DRIVERS THEY WOULD FOR SURE DO BETTER. WHO WANTS TO BET ON DON EASH AND JOHN DELONG?
I believe Hoosier outhandles 3 of the 4 OHIO tracks.
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I believe Hoosier outhandles 3 of the 4 OHIO tracks.
That’s not true. Just watch next Wednesday and Thursday.
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Tyler Smith taking advantage of Miami being dark Fri + Sat and racing at Hoosier. Driven there in past years.
Doing well. Having the Cullipher account is a nice start. tmbz1
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Has the Hoosier handle gone down because Rick Plano has apparently given up driving his horses?
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What’s holding them back starts with Rick Moore and ends with his protected sidekick Scott Penis. With the clowns running the show it’ll never change. Zero innovation or desire to do better, complete joke. Used to get by because they had some good people around them, but they’ve slowly run them off. Sad to see, barely worth watching anymore and the long stretch with the passing with the current group of drivers is an awful betting product.
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I've always said smart/educated and big bettors want and need certain things --- full and competitive fields, large pools to bet into, and ideally, a low takeout! LOL. Now, on one hand, you have plenty of hard-core betters and if you drop a quarter, those bettors as a group, will bet on heads or tails, LOL. On the other hand, for some, perhaps many, there's more to it.
Look at the Meadowlands now. My home track. I've been betting it since the day it opened. Today, you have full fields, large pools, and some may say competitive fields, but IMO it is a piss-poor product with a poor drivers colony as a whole. The Meadowlands was famous throughout the entire sport and industry for it's late closers and attracted horses from all over North America. It's still "hard" racing and it still takes a toll on horses. I can see why top trainers want to educate their young and green horses elsewhere. The betting product? Please. I don't want to see 40% plus winning favorites, coupled with trainers who shoot 10% and drivers who don't shoot much better. Far too unreliable on these variables. I am looking to bet against the favorite, so I want to find a reliable "this is a beaten favorite" horse based upon my knowledge, handicapping, what I see on the track, etc. With all this in the mix, poor product, poor driving colony as a whole, poor competitive aspects, and so on. I am strongly, very strongly, considering shifting my betting focus to Ontario exclusively. The only problem I have is that I am not onsite regularly.
Back in the 80's and 90's, did John Campbell, Billy O'Donnell, etc. "take the winter off" and go to FL? Did they drive elsewhere in the winter? Throw into the mix, no more winter racing at Pompano. The Meadowlands better start acting and behaving like they want to return to be the mecca of harness racing or else they are going to lose their opportunity.
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I am not so sure this driving colony is holding back the handle. Look at what goes on at Monticello Raceway. They get a strong handle every day they race. Yet about 90% of the time the horse leading after the first quarter wins the race. Sure most of these horses are the favorites but talk about a boring product with near 48% of the favorites winning. The horses racing in the Catskills are pretty awful and can’t usually compete even at Saratoga Raceway. But betting fans keep pouring their money into this track. I don’t get it. At least at Hoosier you will see lead changes and some horses winning from mid pack or even the back. Favorites have been winning at only a 33% so far in 2024. You rarely see this at Monticello or Yonkers for that matter.
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I am not so sure this driving colony is holding back the handle. Look at what goes on at Monticello Raceway. They get a strong handle every day they race. Yet about 90% of the time the horse leading after the first quarter wins the race. Sure most of these horses are the favorites but talk about a boring product with near 48% of the favorites winning. The horses racing in the Catskills are pretty awful and can’t usually compete even at Saratoga Raceway. But betting fans keep pouring their money into this track. I don’t get it. At least at Hoosier you will see lead changes and some horses winning from mid pack or even the back. Favorites have been winning at only a 33% so far in 2024. You rarely see this at Monticello or Yonkers for that matter.
Maybe the Monticello drivers should go and drive at other tracks. Tougher to win with cheaper horses.
A more truer test could be shipping the good drivers to Monticello and see if they can drive less horsepower.
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I believe that Hoosier once had a reputation for not allowing the hokey POKEY that goes on most everywhere else,but the problems that have come to light portray just the opposite opinion now! If people are getting popped with banned substances and items on the ground there is a great big problem somewhere other than the trainers. The problem is one of 2 possibilities, ass kissing or envelope gifting! A blown reputation is impossible to reobtain once it's gone!
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Hoosier was doing well tell the got rid of Tim Schimdt. Now it is not much different than the Ohio tracks or Illinois. More than likely cut their testing budget once they sent him packing.
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Hoosier was doing well tell the got rid of Tim Schimdt. Now it is not much different than the Ohio tracks or Illinois. More than likely cut their testing budget once they sent him packing.
IHRC determines testing, obviously that has zero to do with whoever the judges are. tmbz1
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Handle will get better when
Stakes and two yr olds start racing
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I believe that Hoosier once had a reputation for not allowing the hokey POKEY that goes on most everywhere else,but the problems that have come to light portray just the opposite opinion now! If people are getting popped with banned substances and items on the ground there is a great big problem somewhere other than the trainers. The problem is one of 2 possibilities, ass kissing or envelope gifting! A blown reputation is impossible to reobtain once it's gone!
It is both of them. Ass kissing for the locals and envelope passing for the rich ones. Hoosier takes care of their local horsemen. Stohler and George take 50% of the money out of Hoosier and Erv and Essig another 35% add in roger Welch who never liked an ass he didn’t kiss and that pretty much sums up Hoosier. Now you can add in wilfong and his hochstetler and then you have your answer why big players avoid this place unless of course there aren’t many other betting options.
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Monticello is a monster of a different breed --- low (lowest) classes of racing, year-round, multiple days a week, and for whatever reason people off-track seem to still want to bet on low-class, half-mile track racing. You have a couple of drivers there who are competitive elsewhere, but not that many. The horses to an even lesser extent. They have what, a $5500 to $6500 Open? I wonder what the top trainers there get for a daily rate, LOL. But, comparatively, they still attract handle. Why I don't know, LOL.