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General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: jupiter on April 24, 2021, 02:17:37 PM
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Another Tactical Landing, give him to somebody else (Takter) and try to get some money back. It will never happen Tony isn´t Bobby Stewart he has no class.////
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he performed better than Damien so far
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Great a pair of expensive duds
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Another Tactical Landing, give him to somebody else (Takter) and try to get some money back. It will never happen Tony isn´t Bobby Stewart he has no class.////
agreed, Alagna has never been a trot guy. Just doesn’t have the experience to sort balancing issues etc. out. Successful otherwise but far down my list of competent trotting guys.
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he could be a force at The Meadowlands in some of these classes this year
19 Trot 3 Year Old Colts & Geldings Winners of 1 but not more than 2 Extended PM Races Life AE: N/W $20,000 (N/W L3 $22,500) Life AE: Maidens may enter and draw inside $16,000
20 Trot 3 Year Olds Winners of 2 not more than 4(Fillies or N/W L3 5) Extended PM Races or $40,000(N/W L3 $45,000) Life $18,000
21 Trot 5 Year Olds & Under Winners of 1 but not more than 2 Extended PM Races Life AE: N/W $20,000 (F&M or N/W L3 $22,500) Life AE: Maidens may enter and draw inside $16,000
22 Trot 5 Year Olds & Under Winners of 2 but not more than 4(F&M, N/W L3 or 3 YO 5) Extended PM Races or $40,000(F&M or N/W L3 $45,000) Life $18,000
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agreed, Alagna has never been a trot guy. Just doesn’t have the experience to sort balancing issues etc. out. Successful otherwise but far down my list of competent trotting guys.
The problem with Maverick has nothing to do with "shoeing and balancing" or Alagna's training ability. That is the biggest crock of shit that imaginary trainers say when a trotter can't go and then they go on and train the horse in their mind. As soon as you hear someone say 'shoeing and balancing' you know that they are an amateur who saw an article once or knows a guy who owns a horse or they are nobodies who NEVER win a race and their horses step on the track with really colorful equipment and never go forward. The list of people like that is endless. There is no such thing as a "trotting guy" but there is such thing as a guy who prefers trotters and can afford to buy really good ones.
Nobody from Sweden or Norway or all the other delusional places can get a piece of shit trotter to go. A good trotter is a good trotter. No one creates a champ out of a rat. Yeah some guys can really improve a horse off a complete idiot but Alagna is far from an idiot and he has so much going his way that if he can't figure a horse out, he has someone around who can. Tony has a lot of experienced people riding for him and I would bet a million dollars that every one of his guys knows that the horse needs to be gelded.
Going back to the shoeing and balancing thing. Takter isn't "better" than any of the people I have worked with over 50 years that I viewed as good horsemen. He is just a very good trainer and businessman but more than that he is a guy like a shifty politician who hypnotizes rich horse buyers with all of his glamorous shit with all the bells and whistles. Rich people with huge egos want to belong to the Takter country club and they give him money and he uses that money to buy the best horses and then just trains then like any competent trainer. The cream rises to the top and the rest you never hear from. I can name 10 guys off the top of my head who would do just as well or better if they had Takters stock. I am not putting down a guy who wins 100 Hambletonians but he did not win because of money grab fake stories about his "special" training and shoes and resistance jog carts and interval training yada yada yada. He does great only because he is a good trainer with the best of the best stock. Give Takter a barn filled with 50 ordinary overnight horses and he will be only as good as everyone else who struggles with problem horses. Jimmy doesn't have problem horses because he doesn't keep them and when they are gone he goes out and buys ones that look promising for other people. Takter's problem horses vanish faster than his ex son in law who was actually a nice kid with a good pair of hands who got screwed over.
As far as Maverick goes, you have to ignore his yearling price. It means nothing. As far as trotting colts go he's actually way ahead of most of the other babies who sold alongside him. Like I said, his yearling price means nothing. He is just another trotting colt who has the misfortune of being the full brother to the most overrated trotter that ever ever ever ever set foot on the track and he is the first million dollar yearling. Those are the reasons why this horse looks bad when he really isn't. The trouble with Maverick is easy to see with the trained eye and through what you hear through the REAL grapevine. Maverick needs to be f****ing gelded ASAP and he is just a "nice" trotter. In the real world he would have been gelded 4 months into his training. That's the end of the story. You don't need to know anything more than that. Trouble is that nobody will geld a full brother to a world champion that they paid a million bucks for. If he had been gelded he would be a very nice colt who could grind away money over the course of a long career. He is actually a very talented horse who needs his balls cut off.
The whole "Swedish training is better thing" and the push to "sen him to Taketr" is a con game when they say that they do special tricks with shoes and equipment. The Swedes have been pulling that con game with all the bells and whistles for 30 years and suckering in American and Canadian money. You would be surprised at how these stupid morons who buy horses like Maverick are impressed with the Takter delusion. Gurfein was a nobody until he had a top horse and knew how to talk himself up and get more money and better horses. There is nothing special about him. This is why I rarely tinkered with trotters because they are either good or they suck and drive you insane. Every good trotter I ever had was good from the very start and even then most of them turn shitty as they train down. If you work on a small budget and buy 3 or 4 mid range trotting fillies and colts every year you are bound to look bad and go broke. I had a few top pacers three years in a row and then this guy comes to me out of that bunch and wants to invest money into young trotters for me. I sent him to someone else without even a second thought. I figured that since 1966 I have looked good and never put a rat on the track. If I started dealing with baby trotters I was going to blow my whole career. The odds are stacked against you. My dad made his name with trotters but he worked twice as hard as I ever had to work and his motto was "they either go or they don't". Even if you spend millions of dollars you're only going to get a few that are good and even then in races your 6 figures horse will usually be not nearly as good as someone else's $5,000 yearling. This happens more often than not.
Mavericks brother Greenshoe will be a flop at stud ( you heard it here first) and by then it will be too late to geld Maverick because his bad habits will be ingrained for life. That's all you need to know. Maverick is a perfect lesson in how a talented horse can accidentally look like a rat and leeches in the cheap seats scream SEND HIM TO TAKTER!
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Carnival People,
While there’s a few minor things in your post I don’t necessarily agree with (or have visibility to), I’d say 90% of it is spot on tmbz1
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Just watched the replay. He was trotting perfect until Andrew asked him to go. Ear pinning and jumping off. Sadly he will never be gelded.
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too much pressure now for horse to succeed..
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not horses fault
they are what they are...
breeding him can be a great option,,
brother to greenshoe
will be lots of lookers on babies tmbz1
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canival great reading i agree with most everything you said training colts is just a numbers game buy the best and 0ne out of ten might make money as far s swedes go people used to rave about nordin he was the most over rated trainer ever his secret was to buy all the expensive colts train them to death and grind out the odd good one all this crap about breeding is a con game if breeding meant anything horses like maverick would be automatic champions there is no reason for two brothers should be that diffferent if breeding means anything
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Carnival,
Loved your comments. Thanks for sharing!!!
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I say this happens. He will be shipped to Sweden and breed there. If his foals can go forward at all. he'll be back in the states.
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I say this happens. He will be shipped to Sweden and breed there. If his foals can go forward at all. he'll be back in the states.
My opinin is that virtually nobody will breed to Maverick for the same reason that no one breeds to White Bliss. Both horses are famous for something that has nothing to do with their racetrack talent. When you are investing a lot of money and three years of your time into making a baby and then a racehorse, you aim for proven stallions. With that said, for my money, with a gun to my head I would breed to Maverick before I would breed to Greenshoe. Maverick is better looking and larger than his brother and he has a better way of going. He gobbles up ground but he needs to be gelded. I don't know if you know this but if you get your horse gelded it seriously limits their ability to breed haha! Trouble is that he needs to be gelded to show how good he can be but then you can't breed him. Maybe freeze some of his sperm or something. Why bother though because there are proven stallions out there. When I was a kid this was the problem with horses sired by Tar Heel. Tar Heel was a good horse who didn't like the game one bit but he managed to do well in spite of it. In the breeding shed it came out in the wash. It got to the point where you always gelded your Tar Heel colts because he stamped them with poor attitudes but with racing talent. The fillies were okay. The sons he had who went on to be sires were the ones who didn't act like their daddy from thr get go but had his speed and durability. The whole Maverick/Greenshoe story will be told after we see what Greenshoe does as a stallion. I have serious doubts that he will be any good. I was not impressed by his gait and his looks but I would still kill to have a horse like him. Green Manalishi is much better and we will see his babys soon but with trotters a lot has to do with pedigree. Maverick is a perfect looking horse and if he only passes that fact on to his foals you will get some really good horses, My opinion is that Maverick in a perfect world would be a dependable stallion on a smaller level and he will sire raceway horses that will all be geldings. A few will be top horses. Both brothers would be very successful if you bred them to french mares. The whole picture changes big time if you do that. That might be the European plan but as it stands now Maverick is as worthless as White Bliss. But if I had a spare mare hanging around I would take a shot with him if his stud fee was 2,000 or less. It will pan out quick too because stallions who throw horses with bad attitudes do so right off the bat. You know from the first crop what you've got. These are just my opinions but I am correct most of the time. I predicted that an unknown horse named waikiki beach would be a good sire and nobody knew who I was talking about.
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FYI: White Bliss was bought by one of Svanstat's very wealthy owners who breeds white horses in Sweden and surrounding countries for a hobby. He was not bought to be a dominant pacing sire. IT WAS SOLELY FOR THE COLOR. As it turned out being Albino limited his breeding availability.
You may be correct on Maverick needing to be gelded. Just want to be sure the facts are out on White Bliss.
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Plus White Bliss brought $260,000 as a yearling. In today's market, not an absurd figure. I see many $200,000 plus yearling from some of the top proven sires be duds.
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My opinin is that virtually nobody will breed to Maverick for the same reason that no one breeds to White Bliss. Both horses are famous for something that has nothing to do with their racetrack talent. When you are investing a lot of money and three years of your time into making a baby and then a racehorse, you aim for proven stallions. With that said, for my money, with a gun to my head I would breed to Maverick before I would breed to Greenshoe. Maverick is better looking and larger than his brother and he has a better way of going. He gobbles up ground but he needs to be gelded. I don't know if you know this but if you get your horse gelded it seriously limits their ability to breed haha! Trouble is that he needs to be gelded to show how good he can be but then you can't breed him. Maybe freeze some of his sperm or something. Why bother though because there are proven stallions out there. When I was a kid this was the problem with horses sired by Tar Heel. Tar Heel was a good horse who didn't like the game one bit but he managed to do well in spite of it. In the breeding shed it came out in the wash. It got to the point where you always gelded your Tar Heel colts because he stamped them with poor attitudes but with racing talent. The fillies were okay. The sons he had who went on to be sires were the ones who didn't act like their daddy from thr get go but had his speed and durability. The whole Maverick/Greenshoe story will be told after we see what Greenshoe does as a stallion. I have serious doubts that he will be any good. I was not impressed by his gait and his looks but I would still kill to have a horse like him. Green Manalishi is much better and we will see his babys soon but with trotters a lot has to do with pedigree. Maverick is a perfect looking horse and if he only passes that fact on to his foals you will get some really good horses, My opinion is that Maverick in a perfect world would be a dependable stallion on a smaller level and he will sire raceway horses that will all be geldings. A few will be top horses. Both brothers would be very successful if you bred them to french mares. The whole picture changes big time if you do that. That might be the European plan but as it stands now Maverick is as worthless as White Bliss. But if I had a spare mare hanging around I would take a shot with him if his stud fee was 2,000 or less. It will pan out quick too because stallions who throw horses with bad attitudes do so right off the bat. You know from the first crop what you've got. These are just my opinions but I am correct most of the time. I predicted that an unknown horse named waikiki beach would be a good sire and nobody knew who I was talking about.
I absolutely love your comments, thanks for sharing!!!
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agree wit most of your statement carnival. tony no different then takter when it comes to marketing to owners. takter just has more success. tony entire stable wouldnt earn more dat year then da yearlin prices
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The whole Maverick/Greenshoe story will be told after we see what Greenshoe does as a stallion. I have serious doubts that he will be any good.
Greenshoe's first crop is not even eligible to race in M stakes because of the Gural Rule. That's going to be a strike against.
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Tony won hambo last yr... stop
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Magician, Fools Goal would not have made a dime if they were not gelded. More need to be gelded than don´t.
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please do not compare maverick to white bliss in terms of pedigree
white bliss was a freak(color wise) with very average pedigree and someone paid to own a unicorn
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I think a better comparison is probably Donato Hvr’s brother, Detour. Huge $$ yearling that turned out to be an also ran and not in demand as a sire at all.
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Sometime a barn change is good. With this horse though his gate etc... is spot on he just doesn’t have heart a new trainer can’t fix that. If he wasn’t such a expensive purchase he would of been castrated last year and retried this year no better he would of been shit canned
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Sometime a barn change is good. With this horse though his gate etc... is spot on he just doesn’t have heart a new trainer can’t fix that. If he wasn’t such a expensive purchase he would of been castrated last year and retried this year no better he would of been shit canned
The most expensive amish horse ever
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Give Ake a shot at him..he may just need a trainer/driver/stock prod combination..
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please do not compare maverick to white bliss in terms of pedigree
white bliss was a freak(color wise) with very average pedigree and someone paid to own a unicorn
I did not compare their pedigree or anything apart from the fact that I said both horses are famous for things that have nothing to do with their racing ability. White Bliss because of his color and Maverick because of his price tag. The point being that no one can expect Maverick to get mares to breed just because he cost a million bucks the same as White Bliss can't get mares to breed to him simply because he is white. Some people are already sending out the idea that he will go to Europe as a stallion but who would breed to him? You didn't fully read what I wrote which is typical on here.
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still waiting for Maverick to make his next start
did anyone see Damien, the other million dollar yearling?
last I saw, his picture was on a milk carton
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Tremendous job of marketing....
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RACE 4 - MEADOWLANDS - Qualifier - Fri, May 14, 2021 - Post: 10:30 AM
Conditions: Qualifier 3 Year Olds
Gait: Trot Purse: $0 Class: Qua Distance: 1 Mile Strs: 6
HN Horse PP Med. Year to Date Driver Trainer ML
Odds Base
Claim
Sts W P S Time Earnings Stable
1 LOVE MUFFIN 1 1 0 0 0 Q1:55.4 M $0 Andy Miller Julie Miller 0-0 $0
2 MAVERICK 2 0 0 0 0 $0 Andrew McCarthy Tony Alagna 0-0 $0
3 SQUABLE 3 $0 Thomas Corelli Thomas Corelli 0-0 $0
4 CASH HUDSON 4 $0 Andrew McCarthy Tony Alagna 0-0 $0
5 DELAYED HANOVER 5 $0 Ake Svanstedt Ake Svanstedt 0-0 $0
6 CHASE BLUE CHIP 6 $0 Trond Smedshammer Trond Smedshammer 0-0 $0
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Back in 2015, Pinkman was doing nothing. THEY GELDED HIM. He won the Hambo.
Former Clunker, Pinkman Major Threat in Hambletonian
But first, there was one more trick left, gelding the son of Explosive Matter. Takter, who is in the business of developing stallions for himself and his clients, doesn’t like to geld horses, but with Pinkman he felt he had no other choice. Once gelded in June, Pinkman did a 180.
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Magician, Fools Goal would not have made a dime if they were not gelded. More need to be gelded than don´t.
tmbz1
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the clock is ticking
unless he does a 180 in the next month or so
no one is breeding to him anyway, they are many other very good sires out there
he might stand at Illinois or atlantic canada
but lets see how he does his next few starts
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Exactly some horses don’t need their balls and as far as I’m concerned there’s some men that don’t need them either. ngc3
Back in 2015, Pinkman was doing nothing. THEY GELDED HIM. He won the Hambo.
Former Clunker, Pinkman Major Threat in Hambletonian
But first, there was one more trick left, gelding the son of Explosive Matter. Takter, who is in the business of developing stallions for himself and his clients, doesn’t like to geld horses, but with Pinkman he felt he had no other choice. Once gelded in June, Pinkman did a 180.
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well that was another disappointment
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He is either going to be jusr a race horse or he will have a mysterious problem and they will try to breed the slow brother to a good horse, just like detour hanover, at least he had a mark
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the other million dollar yearling
off the milk carton
$1 million yearling Damien in Sweden
Speaking of Redén,Damien (Muscle Hill? Danae),
purchased for $1 million as a yearling at Lexington 2019,has
left Marcus Melander's stable in New Egypt, NJ and has a new
home in Redén's barn in Sweden for owner Brixton Medical
AB.
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I just witnessed the end of the road for Maverick. Once he put those trotting hobbles on his career as a stallion was instantly over. In my opinion his stallion career was over the moment he stepped out onto the track last year. NOW will you please geld this son of a gun ? I am also starting to wonder if his balls are his only issue. Going past the five eights he was trying to run and the driver was holding him together to the wire. He will make a nice gelding but not a really good one. His entire career will only be about his price tag. So what? He is bred to race so just race him but stop with the dreaming that he is some kind of magic creature. He is not a whole load of stock and his brother made a lot of money but he never impressed me and he will NOT be a good stallion, You saw it here first ladies and gentleman, Greenshoe will be a bad stallion.
I wish that the lame brains on here would stop saying things like SEND HIM TO AKE. Who the f***K is Ake? He's nobody. He's another Scandanavian dick who comes here and puts on a dog and pony show with ego maniac ameica-hating owners who want to say they have a horse with him because his tack trunks and his harness bags are coated in Armor All. Alagna would bury Ake any day with any horse and even Alagana is no hero. Stop with the Scandanavian con job. The minute I hear someone say something like that I know they're an outsider or a fan or a complete stupid ass. I could name a hundred trainers I would send him to besides Ake and even then the problem is not the trainer. This must really bother Alagna but it's not his fault. I feel bad for Tony. He never bothered anyone and he spits out some nice horses. Maverick horse would still be a roach if Billy Haughton came down from heaven and hitched him. That's what you get for spending 1 million just because you want to have a prick and tape measure contest. As he is now, Maverick is worth about $30,000. Don't start screaming about European breeding. If he ends up in Europe he will go to some low end shit farm and stand for a small fee. Then people will start with the magical thing about how he is a european stallion. Screw that. Europe is not so far away that you cannot see that he will be a dud there too. He is just a typical shit horse but he is only viewed as shitty because he cost so much. If he had been a 40k yearling he would be seen now as a horse who is coming along and just needs to be gelded. These horses are not cars and Maverick is like a ford or a chevy. They paid for a Masarati but they got an impala. That's the usual way it goes. My grandaughter just said to leave Maverick alone. lol she feels bad for him.
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we have real maserati's,,aston martin's ,and lotus //ferrari's and porsche..
at our luxury dealerships pls stop bye
all horsemen get pref treatment tmbz1
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absolutely love your comments Carnival!
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Maverick = 1,500 stud fee standing in IN. Maverick has turned into a write off for his ownership group. As far as Greenshoe at stud just like every 1st time sire they will pay for the first two crops especially if they look good.
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Send him to Takter just to prove your idiocy wrong. Signed Propulsion.
I just witnessed the end of the road for Maverick. Once he put those trotting hobbles on his career as a stallion was instantly over. In my opinion his stallion career was over the moment he stepped out onto the track last year. NOW will you please geld this son of a gun ? I am also starting to wonder if his balls are his only issue. Going past the five eights he was trying to run and the driver was holding him together to the wire. He will make a nice gelding but not a really good one. His entire career will only be about his price tag. So what? He is bred to race so just race him but stop with the dreaming that he is some kind of magic creature. He is not a whole load of stock and his brother made a lot of money but he never impressed me and he will NOT be a good stallion, You saw it here first ladies and gentleman, Greenshoe will be a bad stallion.
I wish that the lame brains on here would stop saying things like SEND HIM TO AKE. Who the f***K is Ake? He's nobody. He's another Scandanavian dick who comes here and puts on a dog and pony show with ego maniac ameica-hating owners who want to say they have a horse with him because his tack trunks and his harness bags are coated in Armor All. Alagna would bury Ake any day with any horse and even Alagana is no hero. Stop with the Scandanavian con job. The minute I hear someone say something like that I know they're an outsider or a fan or a complete stupid ass. I could name a hundred trainers I would send him to besides Ake and even then the problem is not the trainer. This must really bother Alagna but it's not his fault. I feel bad for Tony. He never bothered anyone and he spits out some nice horses. Maverick horse would still be a roach if Billy Haughton came down from heaven and hitched him. That's what you get for spending 1 million just because you want to have a prick and tape measure contest. As he is now, Maverick is worth about $30,000. Don't start screaming about European breeding. If he ends up in Europe he will go to some low end shit farm and stand for a small fee. Then people will start with the magical thing about how he is a european stallion. Screw that. Europe is not so far away that you cannot see that he will be a dud there too. He is just a typical shit horse but he is only viewed as shitty because he cost so much. If he had been a 40k yearling he would be seen now as a horse who is coming along and just needs to be gelded. These horses are not cars and Maverick is like a ford or a chevy. They paid for a Masarati but they got an impala. That's the usual way it goes. My grandaughter just said to leave Maverick alone. lol she feels bad for him.
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I've heard Tony is not a spitter.
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Send him to Takter just to prove your idiocy wrong. Signed Propulsion.
Takter will geld him and go on to look like a hero. That will be the deal they strike if Takter even agrees to take him. Don't you know how this shell game works yet? And Im the idiot. I have to luagh at that. Whoever gets him and gelds him wins or at least has a chance. Why should it be Takter. e will held him and win a race in 52 and earn about 50 tousand lifetime and people like you will say ,,see I told you he would fix him... People who fall for the Takter con game make me laugh. Do you know how many money people lost their shirts using Takter? All you have to do is look at the scorecard. I say 95% of them lost there shirts. I know because they tell me so. My nephew in law is doing pretty good with a few Takter former owners and they have nothing nice to say about that whole click. Geld the goddam horse and forget what you paid for him. But again, this time it looked like it is more then his balls that are holding him back.
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If a trainer change was happening I’d give him to Steve Elliott. In my opinion he js one of the best horseman in the business. JMO
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Carnival, I'm a fan of harness and bet, but don't know a thing about training. People will roll their eyes on here, but what percentage of horses are usually gelded? Is gelding automatic with cheap horses? Does their urge to screw just compromise their training so much that you have to do it? What do you see in Maverick that tells you he needs to be gelded? Dumb questions, I suppose, but I don't know.
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If a trainer change was happening I’d give him to Steve Elliott. In my opinion he js one of the best horseman in the business. JMO
That might be a little hard to do Steve is still suspended for another year or 2
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Watched Maverick's qualifier. He had no trot. They either have to ship him overseas as a sire or geld him. Gelding may not even work but there is no other choice
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SPOKEN LIKE TRUE OWNERS OF A QUARTER CLAIMING STABLE. CANT WAIT TO STICK HIM IN THE BOX, WEEK AFETR WEEK
FOR YOU GUYS
YOU NEVER HAD ONE
HOPE MOST OF YOU NEVER WILL
DONT DESERVE IT
"HERE IS WHAT I WOULD DO IF HE WERE MY $5000 CLAIMER"
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Alagna's on his game,on fire,winning with everything,so a barn change shouldn't make a difference..he either has no engine or no heart,two things that no trainer can fix,regardless if it's balls in or balls out.!!
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my guess is he either has no talent or is hurting
no trainer change will help him IMO
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HE IS JUST SLOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NEVER HAS SHOWN ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOT THE FIRST FULL BROTHER TO A GOOD HORSE THAT IS A DUD
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agreed, but it is an expensive mistake many make
of course those that buy those types can generally afford the hit
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He is just plum tired out from hauling his pedigree around.
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While I agree the horse doesn’t have the talent of his brother Tony set him up to be a failure. Last training before he qualified first time last year he was horrible put him in anyway. Said horse tied up after 1st Q. Puts him right back in a week later. What does he expect
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Don´t blame the horse he is what he is, no less, no more. He, is not what they paid for, they bought him for publicity. Now they will eat him.