HORSEPLOP.COM
General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: Zippychippy423 on October 07, 2019, 10:29:15 AM
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Why is more money being bet year over year ? Even the purse sizes have increased. It seems like perception is not reality in this case.
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My statement is all based on facts. Fact : In general people think harness racing is a dying sport. Fact: More money has been wagered this year compared to last year at this time. Fact : Purses are also up compared to last year at this time. I imagine if someone could research it t-breds probably have the same type of facts. My question is if racing is in such turmoil how come we aren’t seeing this reflected in the overall totals?
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Belmont .... I don't see anywhere that Zippy said the industry was healthy. He is saying, with betting going up, it's a poor indication it is "dying".
Terrible year last year or not, an uptick has as much chance of leading to an upward trend as it does downward.
Time will tell.
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Stand Forever .... DDUUUHHHH If there's enough betting, there's a need for the product.
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The product would have been gone long ago without the slots and all the increase in purse money did was make the sport a chemistry class where assholes who can`t even spell horse are making millions using class 1 narcotics, steroids, blood builders, etc. It`s a fucking joke!
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Sadly, this is correct.
Eg Pocono yesterday $135K in purses. About $220K in handle. 20% cut = $42K in track earnings. Deficit of $100K without slot support (before considering ANY overhead.. thats just to pay purses). $100K deficit on one track on one day before paying overhead.... Breakeven at these purse levels is probably $1M a day (500% increase)
Yes those are facts...but just because something improves off an already very very low number doesnt mean the sport is healthy.
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The slot support is the new norm so unless law makers decouple the racing element it will stick around for years to come. It would not shock me to see tracks push for a higher take out percentage or switch to a fixed odds format. In any event there are still a boat load of people who bet on horse racing. Two parimutuel sports that use to bring in millions were Jai Alai and dog racing which within the next few years will be totally defunct. They have specific reasons for their demise and it’s not less people interested in betting. The sport of kings has been around for a very long time and it’s not going anywhere. If there becomes less tracks and less races so be it...hell I did better at the 1980’s OTB when it was just one track during the day and at night.
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Yes those are facts...but just because something improves off an already very very low number doesnt mean the sport is healthy.
Any upward trend is welcome news. But as this poster points out, a small increase of a 20 year decline is anecdotal. If we get a couple years in addition to recent up tick, that would be impressive. It is like having a 3 yr, old pacer who just paced in 2:09, beating last win in 2:10.
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I think when sports betting is implemented in all States its going to hurt the racing industry...
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tmbz1 tmbz1
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Harness racing is the Mark Twain of sports.
“The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated.”
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handle doesn't pay for 1 race per night at jonkers and most other tracks
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Sadly, this is correct.
Eg Pocono yesterday $135K in purses. About $220K in handle. 20% cut = $42K in track earnings. Deficit of $100K without slot support (before considering ANY overhead.. thats just to pay purses). $100K deficit on one track on one day before paying overhead.... Breakeven at these purse levels is probably $1M a day (500% increase)
I think it’s worse than that. The great majority of the $220K handle was off track where the hold percentage for the host is anywhere from 3-6%
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Agreed.
$1M handle at a blended rate of 13% or so... 500% increase to maaaaaaaayybe have a shot of being able to see the breakeven point.
Yes it's fugly
I think it’s worse than that. The great majority of the $220K handle was off track where the hold percentage for the host is anywhere from 3-6%
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Agreed.
$1M handle at a blended rate of 13% or so... 500% increase to maaaaaaaayybe have a shot of being able to see the breakeven point.
Yes it's fugly
try an average of 4%
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The slot support is the new norm
zippy this is not the new norm its been going on for almost 20 years ago.. if you researched comments going back 2005..2010...2015 and currently you would have one common denominator...
all the bozos keep saying that the casinos are going to stop supporting the horse racing very soon.. its been said for close to 20 years now and it hasnt happened then and its not happening now... but guarantee they will keep saying it.. sooner or later the casinos will stop supporting the horses .. but sooner or later we will all be dead so what the hell matters.....
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"You didn't see the back of the envelope roi analysis a few posts back....NO business model can survive at a 5 to 1 loss."
Belmont ... I saw it. I've been seeing the same thing for 10 + years now. It's obviously an extremely slow death. Put a date on it ? Is it gone the same year the stock market crashes, or the year house prices in New York fall by 60%, or the year Boston is under water, or the year Cleveland wins the Super Bowl?
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Slot support is definitely the new norm because most casinos or racinos cannot have casino style games without the racing dates. Yes the racing is the loss leader for most of these companies but that money is already budgeted out. The fact that many tracks don’t show a profit has nothing to do with the popularity of the betting. I think the take out percentage is pretty low considering it’s been the same for many years and hasn’t changed with inflation.
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More like increase in handle was directed related to full fields. The full fields were a reflection of greater purses.
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It is a slow death to horse racing. The big stables get bigger, small stables get out. Harder to find help, vets, blacksmiths or anyone to work. We dont see alot of 2nd or 3rd generations in the business anymore. Ya there are a few but not the numbers to sustain. Burke has 2 boys and all his sisters have kids and NONE of them are in the business to take over for ronnie. Makes you wonder why. None of burkes owners kids are in it either. I think that tells the big story rite there...
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Fair is Fair .... If the Burke's have made enough to exit the business, there will be plenty of new chemists waiting to step up to work with his big pocketed owners. Don't worry about the training element. And if the purses are there, you will always have big shots with deep pockets willing to take a shot at the glory.
$$ + Chemicals = Wins = EGO It's a never ending formula if purses are available.
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Whats going up ?? Yonkers handle now 40k a race with.no post time delay..its down
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My statement is all based on facts. Fact : In general people think harness racing is a dying sport. Fact: More money has been wagered this year compared to last year at this time. Fact : Purses are also up compared to last year at this time. I imagine if someone could research it t-breds probably have the same type of facts. My question is if racing is in such turmoil how come we aren’t seeing this reflected in the overall totals?
Is this an inflated-adjusted total trend?