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General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: wizardofoz on November 11, 2023, 11:50:46 AM
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Currently the sport’s fourth rated horse, Bythemissal has now won four in a row, two races ago of which was a win in the Breeders Crown in 1:48. His mark of 1:47.1 was taken at The Meadowlands in August in a division of the Sam McKee Memorial.
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Too soon to discuss that. Obviously you don't know the draw or other competitors, There will be other horse in there just looking to quiet this match-up talk down..Having said that, barring a horrendous post draw,I say The Missile will prevail.
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great news for the sport
hope it happens and we see a good race
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In the Potomac Pace, Bythemissal took over the lead past a blistering first-quarter of a mile in 26.1 seconds. The son of Downbytheseaside never looked back while setting fractions of 54.1 and 1:20.4 on his way to a final clocking of 1:48 for the mile. The final time was the fastest turned in by a 4-year-old in Rosecroft history.
“He’s just a great horse,” said Gingras, the leading money-winning driver in North America this year. “He can do it any which way.”
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It will not just be the 2 horses but the 2 drivers battling it out as well.......Yannic k vs. Timmy!.........Tattoo Artist remains highly formidable. Stallion plans were announced for him this past week as well, and with Tattoo Artist to stand stud in 2024, the FanDuel Championship was stated to be the end of the 6-year-old’s illustrious career.
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Rooting for an upset and watching Bowden loose his mind. tmbz1 tmbz1 tmbz1 11.wp
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Can ALLYWAG pull one out of nowhere?
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This should be a REAL race for Confederate,not the let him clear and hope to hang on for 2nd money like we've been seeing! I hope that we get a balls to the wall slugfest to end the season! tmbz1
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IF CON-federate does beat these older horses it will definitely add to his legacy........"IF" he can win. Hopefully the track will be dry and no rain at all that night.
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I'm predicting an UPSET, and Bowden getting choked up. If there is one loss you can be sure he retires immediately, with some bullshit story the horse wasn't himself, or sustained some injury ending his career. Now thats how the good old fashioned Diamond Creek Fucking will unfold. 11.wp
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Confederate is an amazing horse. It’s never an easy task stepping up against older horses
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N shame in a 3yr old getting beat by older horses
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Confederate is an amazing horse. It’s never an easy task stepping up against older horses
Not being a trainer I am always trying to understand why a very fast 3 year old has a tougher time beating older horses, especially if the 3 year old is just faster. Do racehorses actually get intimidated racing against older horses?
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Not being a trainer I am always trying to understand why a very fast 3 year old has a tougher time beating older horses, especially if the 3 year old is just faster. Do racehorses actually get intimidated racing against older horses?
Yes they do!
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How would they know the age of the other horses in the race?
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Not being a trainer I am always trying to understand why a very fast 3 year old has a tougher time beating older horses, especially if the 3 year old is just faster. Do racehorses actually get intimidated racing against older horses?
If you compare the "maturity" cycle of a horse to a human athlete, baseball players generally reach their "peak" at 26-29 years of age (probably similar for FB and BKB).
At 3 a horse is still not yet fully grown or fully "mature" relative to the same kind of aging/skill/physical capability curve. Thus, there is the expectation that a horse that is XYZ good at 3 years of age will be XYZ+ good at 4 and possibly XYZ++ good at 5. I don't think they get intimidated (if they have been winning against their own age group, as they would be "brave" from that), but the older horses (even if not gifted with the same innate speed) are a bit "tougher. "
As someone who has seen all of the top horses from 1965 through today (with many of those in person) there is no doubt that Confederate is one of the top 3 year olds (very difficult to compare different eras) I have seen, and I think he is capable of giving a good account of himself against the aged horses he will be facing. I also think that Hoosier Park and the Meadowlands are very favorable tracks for Confederate, given the long stretches. BytheMissal is a very powerful horse. If Yannick doesn't try to get too cute with him (as he loves to try and get away with slow 2nd and 3rd quarters if he is on the lead), it should be a great race, but I think Confederate does have that "extra gear" (seen best when he finished 2nd at Woodbine Mohawk earlier in the year, as he was pacing out of his skin near the end when Tetrick was late to crank him up) and will get by him in the stretch if both horses are racing healthy.
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The Meadowlands did almost $3.2 million last night with a 'decent' card, so on TVG night, with hopefully a dry track and full fields, the betting should be intense and active with 'top' horses in most of the finals. The TVG OPEN PACE should do HUGE numbers if that field materializes.
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Not being a trainer I am always trying to understand why a very fast 3 year old has a tougher time beating older horses, especially if the 3 year old is just faster. Do racehorses actually get intimidated racing against older horses?
The best 3yr old race against the same field most of the year and that leaves horses who are satisfied with being 2nd all season. When the 3yr old meets the older bunch,the entire field wants to be first,therefore the youngster gets nothing handed to him! The result is that the 3yr old has to RACE the entire mile and not only the last 3/8 as he was accustomed to. This is my opinion,I'm sure that there are many more.
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If you compare the "maturity" cycle of a horse to a human athlete, baseball players generally reach their "peak" at 26-29 years of age (probably similar for FB and BKB).
At 3 a horse is still not yet fully grown or fully "mature" relative to the same kind of aging/skill/physical capability curve. Thus, there is the expectation that a horse that is XYZ good at 3 years of age will be XYZ+ good at 4 and possibly XYZ++ good at 5. I don't think they get intimidated (if they have been winning against their own age group, as they would be "brave" from that), but the older horses (even if not gifted with the same innate speed) are a bit "tougher. "
As someone who has seen all of the top horses from 1965 through today (with many of those in person) there is no doubt that Confederate is one of the top 3 year olds (very difficult to compare different eras) I have seen, and I think he is capable of giving a good account of himself against the aged horses he will be facing. I also think that Hoosier Park and the Meadowlands are very favorable tracks for Confederate, given the long stretches. BytheMissal is a very powerful horse. If Yannick doesn't try to get too cute with him (as he loves to try and get away with slow 2nd and 3rd quarters if he is on the lead), it should be a great race, but I think Confederate does have that "extra gear" (seen best when he finished 2nd at Woodbine Mohawk earlier in the year, as he was pacing out of his skin near the end when Tetrick was late to crank him up) and will get by him in the stretch if both horses are racing healthy.
Seattle Slew, Thanks for using my ability and Stamina as a reference point. Glad to assist.
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Seattle Slew, Thanks for using my ability and Stamina as a reference point. Glad to assist.
I used the word "expectation" (but not the certainty). There are exceptions to every rule ;D
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I used the word "expectation" (but not the certainty). There are exceptions to every rule ;D
Point well taken.
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Confederate, the Meadowlands Pace champion whose 1:46.1 clocking at the Red Mile made him the fastest sophomore pacer ever could take on Breeders Crown winner Bythemissal (a winner of four straight) and Tattoo Artist (a winner of seven straight until Bythemissal beat him in the Crown). Confederate seeks to become the first 3-year-old pacer to ever win the FanDuel Pace........CON-federate skipped the Progress Pace eliminations at Dover tonight so it looks like it is a go for the Fanduel next Saturday to make more history for the stud fee if successful.
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RACE 4 - Meadowlands - NJ - November 18, 2023
Conditions: Qualifier - 3 Year Olds & Up Horses & Geldings QuaDistance: 1 Mile
PP Horse Med 2023 North America YTD Driver Trainer ML Claim
Equip Sts W P S Time Earnings Stable Odds Price
1 Lyrical Genius A
FOR: 22 2-1-5 $20333 - - - - - -(i) Jordan Stratton Cory Stratton
2 Ferragamo Hanover
3 12 0 2 2 - $8800 Yannick Gingras Paul Blumenfeld
3 Conboyville L 23 2 5 5 1:54.0H $50040 Cory Stratton Cory Stratton
4 Finnian Hanover
8 1 2 1 1:55.3F $15800 Marcus Miller Erv Miller
5 Ds It`snowornever 5 1 0 0 1:52.1F $7000 Scott Zeron Travis Alexander
6 Confederate
3 L 14 13 1 0 1:46.1M $1630354 Tim Tetrick Brett Pelling They are qualifying him Saturday against bottom level stiffs so he should win by 20 if they are serious about getting him sharp for the TVG Open the following week.
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Over/under for his last quarter in his qualifier at 25.2.
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Cant wait to see Bowden take it in the ass when Confederate gets smoked by the older horses. Fucking smug carrot top, asshole.
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Cant wait to see Bowden take it in the ass when Confederate gets smoked by the older horses. Fucking smug carrot top, asshole.
He fuck your woman or something?
Confederate should hit the board unless something goes wrong and has a decent chance to win. Hate Diamond Creek all you want but Confederate is the real deal. I think the fact that Yannick is gonna put bythemissal on the front is going to really benefit confederate. I don’t know Confederate has the interest to wire these types as a 3 yr old. But give him a target? I like his chances.
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$25,000 was paid already for the ongait.com auction and his fertility has not been checked yet. https://ongait.com/Listings/View/24489
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One breeding for charity for the Tioga Relief Fund
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Bowden must be confident that Confederate can win. Confederate is a very good horse, but I will be surprised if he can beat the older horses.
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RACE 4 - Meadowlands - NJ - November 18, 2023
Conditions: Qualifier - 3 Year Olds & Up Horses & Geldings
Gait: Pace Class: Qua Distance: 1 mile Track Cond: FT Temp-Allow: 50-0
HN Horse PP 1/4 1/2 3/4 Str Finish Actual LQ Odds Driver Trainer
6 Confederate
3, Sweet Lou-Geothermal 6 1/1Q 1/1Q 1/1H 1/4 1/11H 1:51.2 27.0 NB Tim Tetrick Brett Pelling
1 Lyrical Genius A 1 2/1Q 2/1Q 2/1H 2/4 2/11H 1:53.3 29.0 NB Jordan Stratton Cory Stratton
3 Conboyville 3 3/3T 3/3Q 3/4 3/8 3/20T 1:55.3 30.2 NB Cory Stratton Cory Stratton
4 Finnian Hanover
3, Rockin Image-
Fashion Majorette 4 4/6Q 4/5T 4/8H 5/15Q 4/31 1:57.3 31.3 NB Marcus Miller Erv Miller
2 Ferragamo Hanover
3, Sweet Lou-
Fashion Ecstasy 2 5/8 5/7Q 5°/9H 4/15 5/31Q 1:57.3 31.2 NB Andrew McCarthy Paul Blumenfeld
5 Ds It`snowornever 5 6/10H 6/12Q 6/14H 6/18T 6/35H 1:58.2 31.1 NB Scott Zeron Travis Alexander
Time: 28.4 56.2 (27.3) 1:24.2 (28.0) 1:51.2 (27.0)
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RACE 3 - Meadowlands - NJ - November 18, 2023
Conditions: Qualifier - Aged Horses & Geldings
Gait: Pace Purse: 0 Class: QuaDistance: 1 mile Track Cond: FT Temp-Allow: 50-0
HN Horse PP 1/4 1/2 3/4 Str Finish Actual LQ Odds Driver Trainer
3 Tattoo Artist 1 1/1T 1/2 1/4 1/8 1/7Q 1:51.2 28.0 NB Dexter Dunn Chris Ryder
5 Mr Ibiza N 2 2/1T 2/2 2/4 2/8 2/7Q 1:52.4 28.3 NB Andrew McCarthy Tony Alagna
Time: 28.0 55.4 (27.4) 1:23.2 (27.3) 1:51.2 (28.0)
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They could have had CON-federate qualify with Tattoo Artist but they did not want to chance a loss from behind on his record probably, even if a qualifier. It was ludicrous to have Tattoo Artist race against 1 horse when CON-federate could have qualified with him. Deliberate act by racing secretary for sure.
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They could have had CON-federate qualify with Tattoo Artist but they did not want to chance a loss from behind on his record probably, even if a qualifier. It was ludicrous to have Tattoo Artist race against 1 horse when CON-federate could have qualified with him. Deliberate act by racing secretary for sure.
It is a qualifier. Wouldn’t have shown up on his win/loss record
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The Magical world of Adam Bowden... 11.mq
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It is a qualifier. Wouldn’t have shown up on his win/loss record
They do NOT want to see ANY loss on his record now.
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They do NOT want to see ANY loss on his record now.
They are going to see one on the 25th. Bythemissal is a better horse.
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He might very well be Mike, especially if CON-federate comes from behind and has to try to engage and pass Yannick on the Missal. I booked a table at Pink next Saturday to watch it live. (https://playmeadowlands.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/pink4.jpg)
New England Clam Chowder ----Caesar Salad
Apple Walnut Salad
Deviled Eggs with Cajun Shrimp-----Herb Roasted Tomahawk Loin--- Seafood Raw Bar
Chicken Scarpariello
Dijon Baked Flounder---- Vegetable Pasta
Truffled Mashed Potatoes---- Sauteed Broccoli Rabe
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He might very well be Mike, especially if CON-federate comes from behind and has to try to engage and pass Yannick on the Missal. I booked a table at Pink next Saturday to watch it live.
tmbz1 tmbz1 tmbz1
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Deviled Eggs with Cajun Shrimp-----Herb Roasted Tomahawk Loin--- Seafood Raw Bar
Even though it is the East Coast, I would think twice before eating raw seafood at a racetrack ;D
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Deviled Eggs with Cajun Shrimp-----Herb Roasted Tomahawk Loin--- Seafood Raw Bar
Even though it is the East Coast, I would think twice before eating raw seafood at a racetrack ;D
Back in the 70's and 80's in the old grandstand, the raw clams were amazing. Harry M Stevens brought in the food and it was exceptional.
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The great three year old who went in 146.1 no other horse this year went as fast and there are people here that think he will get his bridle jerk off just because they don't like his owners I think he has a great shot to win and am hoping he can let put this hate thing to rest and watch a good race.
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The great three year old who went in 146.1 no other horse this year went as fast and there are people here that think he will get his bridle jerk off just because they don't like his owners I think he has a great shot to win and am hoping he can let put this hate thing to rest and watch a good race.
I agree. Confederate will go off the favorite in my opinion.
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Here is the CON-federate qualifier video from yesterday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJtpXNum_sI
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Tattoo Artist ridiculous 2 horse qualifier: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKKpy_PEnsk
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The handle was $3.2 million last night for the eliminations so next week should be a huge handle for the finals to top off the 2023 stakes season in the country. (https://playmeadowlands.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/fanduel-championships_PROMO-FEATURE.jpg)
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I do not hate Confederate. What I don't like is how Diamond Creek and others operate in a way which is bad for racing.
The guy from Diamond Creek seems like a jerk.
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If everyone wants a great race, then we need Confederate and Bythemissal to draw near each other. It's unfortunate that post position draw is more important than how good your horse is but that's racing.
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I do not hate Confederate. What I don't like is how Diamond Creek and others operate in a way which is bad for racing.
I feel sorry for Confederate. How would you like to be woken up at midnight 3 or 4 times a week to have "blood drawn" ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
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Bowden is going to get by the missal right up his ass! Can't wait. 11.wp 11.wp 11.wp
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May be some owners are jerk but there are jerks every where a lot here with their hate of others I wish any one that races the best of luck cause in this world it only last so long .
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May be some owners are jerk but there are jerks every where a lot here with their hate of others I wish any one that races the best of luck cause in this world it only last so long .
I'm the exact opposite. I want the cheaters put in prison. I could never wish them the best of luck.
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Wise owl is just a Hooter!
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Wise owl is just a Hooter!
tmbz1 tmbz1
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I agree a few could win. I'd like Confederate to win even though his owner seems like a jerk.
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The owners think they are above the little people in the business. Bowden operates as though he's untouchable. Well at least until he's not. tmbz1
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why would confederate race at 4
i dont see the connection to no handouts and him racing at 4
if there is no subsidy( not called handouts) from casinos than purses would decline as well
it comes down to $ and he can make far more at stud than racing
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why would confederate race at 4
i dont see the connection to no handouts and him racing at 4
if there is no subsidy( not called handouts) from casinos than purses would decline as well
it comes down to $ and he can make far more at stud than racing
Why? Gural Rule .. not a career detriment but still important to many people to be able to race their top stock at Big M even if it's just a few races.
Handouts ?? To this horse? He's not racing in overnights only the biggest stakes and they should not be affected.
Probably would make a bit more if only at stud but he could race 8 to 10 times still service some mares and get the best of both worlds.
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Confederate should be the favorite. With people and their money making the odds, I can only hope he's the heavy favorite. If he is, I'll go the other way and bet Bythemissal, although I'll do so begrudgingly, LOL. If I don't like the odds, I could pass on the race too. I just need to find value, and/or an edge. I am sure both horses will be prepped, primied, and ready to roll. But, big money, big notch on the belt, getting a horse to step up when needed. Nobody better than Brett Pelling. It may be 95% horse, but that other 5% can make the difference in a race like this.
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This is not a match race. Tattoo Artist will be there in his last race as well. Bulldog was a sure thing at Lexington last fall until the race happened.
Good luck. Tattoo Artist got his bridle ripped off in his last start by a superior horse. He will have to improve to go with the top two but that is why they race the race, anything can happen.
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It was not that long ago that you could have used that same phrase se about what Tattoo Artist did to Bythemissal. In the best interests of the sport I hope Bythemissal wins and any other geldings in the race finish second and third. They will be racing next year which is good for the sport.
Bythemissal has 26 wins in 32 lifetime starts. Tatoo Artist is a notch or two below. IMO
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Until the Adios, Bythemissal was racing almost exclusively in Ohio. He was not racing against top level horses. He was not close to being the favorite in the Adios.
I've seen Tatoo Artist lose to horses at Yonkers that were not even 40K claimers. Never dismiss winning regardless of the competition. Rambling Willie was just an average horse when he first started out and ended up a legend.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsRMxa1RBbY
https://www.standardbredcanada.ca/news/9-3-23/tattoo-artist-takes-canadian-pacing-derby.html
Tattoo Artist beat them all!
I want to see Bythemissal win and win decisively. He will be racing next year. The industry needs stars on the track.
Lifetime record does not mean much. It depends on who they were racing against and their current form. Sometimes it comes down to who is better that day. Was Allwag a better horse than Bulldog? At the Red Mile he was.
Tatoo Artist has lost more races this year than Bythemissal has in his 3 year career. Bythemissal will end up being the next Foiled Again. He can leave, he can come from behind and he can get around any size track.
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I hope he is the next Foiled Again and I do think he is better than Tattoo Artist when both are at their best. But the fact is Tattoo Artist beat Bythemissal twice in September. I would not be surprised in the winner of this race is not named Bythemissal, Tattoo Artist, or Confederate. Burke at one time said Bythemissal was the fastest horse he has ever trained. I have seen many great horses get beat including seeing Nihilator get beat twice.
tmbz1
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The weather looks dry and in the 40s for Saturday night at the Meadowlands for the TVG races. The draw is tomorrow to see the posts. Will any midnight 'draws' be done this week?
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The weather looks dry and in the 40s for Saturday night at the Meadowlands for the TVG races. The draw is tomorrow to see the posts. Will any midnight 'draws' be done this week?
LOL
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What I want to know is why the blood pull in KY just swept under the rug. Like nothing ever happened. I can’t stand that Bowden. I love Confederate but Bowden ran from any real challenges on Confederate all year. No Adios or LBJ. Would have love to seen versatility on Confederate. My question to anybody who might want to answer is, what was Bowden trying to accomplish by pulling blood from DC horses in the middle of the night?
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What I want to know is why the blood pull in KY just swept under the rug. Like nothing ever happened. I can’t stand that Bowden. I love Confederate but Bowden ran from any real challenges on Confederate all year. No Adios or LBJ. Would have love to seen versatility on Confederate. My question to anybody who might want to answer is, what was Bowden trying to accomplish by pulling blood from DC horses in the middle of the night?
The criminal in me says that they weren't actually pulling blood. The blood testing paraphernalia that was found when caught was just a decoy. Of course, I have no proof but it doesn't smell right to me.
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The criminal in me says that they weren't actually pulling blood. The blood testing paraphernalia that was found when caught was just a decoy. Of course, I have no proof but it doesn't smell right to me.
FULLY AGREED! There is a much bigger picture, to the depths of Adam Bowden's GREED. Its a win at all costs approach.
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The criminal in me says that they weren't actually pulling blood. The blood testing paraphernalia that was found when caught was just a decoy. Of course, I have no proof but it doesn't smell right to me.
That smell is your unwashed asshole. Just FYI.
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The criminal in me says that they weren't actually pulling blood. The blood testing paraphernalia that was found when caught was just a decoy. Of course, I have no proof but it doesn't smell right to me.
No one does that secretly in the middle of the night. Definitely something fishy going on! tmbz1
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This is not about hand outs it is about a race you people are all over the place about this there are many big stables and owner who mite not be good for the sport but it is there money they can do what they want we can't control every one that races guys like Burke are not good for racing either but it is there right to have as many as they want .
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This is not about hand outs it is about a race you people are all over the place about this there are many big stables and owner who mite not be good for the sport but it is there money they can do what they want we can't control every one that races guys like Burke are not good for racing either but it is there right to have as many as they want .
Burke is the Bob Baffert of Harness racing, and I don't say this in a flattering sort of way.
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This is not about hand outs it is about a race you people are all over the place about this there are many big stables and owner who mite not be good for the sport but it is there money they can do what they want we can't control every one that races guys like Burke are not good for racing either but it is there right to have as many as they want .
Fucking grammar and punctuation, maybe just once or try GED.
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As anticipated, Confederate, whose season has seen him win nearly every major sophomore stake while becoming the fastest 3-year-old pacer in history, will face division leaders Bythemissal and Tattoo Artist among the 10-horse, $350,000e Open pace, quite possibly the “Race of the Year.”-----10 horse full field----post positions to be drawn soon------the other 3 older divisions drew small fields unfortunately.
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Tactical Approach dominated this year’s class of sophomore trotters with the Hambletonian and Kentucky Futurity among his 10 wins on the season and will take on a talented field of six veterans led by It’s Academic, Alrajah One IT and Southwind Tyrion (Breeders Crown open trot winner by invitation) in the $350,000e Open trot.
Twin B Joe Fresh has accepted an invitation to face her older rivals, led by Breeders Crown winner Max Contract, in an abbreviated five mare field for the $175,000e Open Mare pace.
Bond will use her Breeders Crown golden ticket to gain entry into the $175,000 Mare Open Trot division where she’ll go against Jiggy Jog S and M-M’s Dream in a five mare race.
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i really only see confederate being competitive in these races
even thought the other 3 year olds are in smaller fields i just cant see them being a real threat
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Bowden bend over and let Michele Crawford peg you for the encore, when confederate takes his beating from the older boys.
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Bowden bend over and let Michele Crawford peg you for the encore, when confederate takes his beating from the older boys.
After the race, you can call him Counterfeit.
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That smell is your unwashed asshole. Just FYI.
Your wife and daughter told me they licked it clean. Sorry, I'll make sure they do a better job next time.
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burke post 3 pelling post 9
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RACE 11 - Meadowlands - NJ - November 25, 2023
Conditions: FANDUEL CHAMPIONSHIP Open Pace (Declaration Fee - $5,000 - 6-last 1% of purse - Points leader draws 1-6 - STAKES BARN Noon Saturday)
Gait: PacePurse: 350,000 Class: FanDuel Distance: 1 Mile Post Time: 10:30 PM (Detention 12:00 PM)
PP Horse Med 2023 North America YTD Driver Trainer ML Claim
Equip Sts W P S Time Earnings Stable Odds Price
1 Southwind Gendry L 22 6 2 4 1:47.2F $112002 Yannick Gingras Ron Burke
2 I Did It Myway 17 6 3 0 1:47.3M $279217 Brian Sears Chuck Crissman Jr
3 Bythemissal 15 11 1 1 1:47.1M $901541 Yannick Gingras Ron Burke
4 Tattoo Artist L 23 9 6 2 1:47.3S $933962 Louis Roy Chris Ryder
5 Abuckabett Hanover 12 3 2 2 1:47.2S $191203 Dexter Dunn Andrew Harris
6 Allywag Hanover L 16 3 2 1 1:47.2M $420788 Todd McCarthy Brett Pelling
7 Taurasi L 15 2 4 3 1:47.2M $174351 Andrew McCarthy Tony Alagna
8 Lou`s Pearlman L 24 3 5 2 1:49.0F $328750 David Miller Ron Burke
9 Confederate
3, Sweet Lou-Geothermal L 14 13 1 0 1:46.1M $1630354 Tim Tetrick Brett Pelling
10 Linedrive Hanover 16 3 2 5 1:47.0S $191210 Scott Zeron Linda Toscano
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Tetrick has to leave here and keep going if nobody gives him a tuck. He actually was handicapped with an outside post as an invite with zero points earned for post 1-6.
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RACE 4 - Meadowlands - NJ - November 25, 2023
Conditions: FANDUEL CHAMPIONSHIP Open Mares (Declaration Fee - $2,500 - 6-last 1% (STAKES BARN Noon Saturday)
Gait: Pace Purse: 175,000 Class: FanDuel Distance: 1 Mile Post Time: 7:35 PM (Detention 12:00 PM)
PP Horse Med 2023 North America YTD Driver Trainer ML Claim
Equip Sts W P S Time Earnings Stable Odds Price
1 Racine Bell 23 8 6 4 1:51.3H $185853 Tim Tetrick David Dewhurst
2 Twin B Joe Fresh
3, Roll With Joe-
Fresh Breeze L 16 10 3 1 1:48.2M $754541 Dexter Dunn Chris Ryder
3 Max Contract L 14 8 1 1 1:48.3M $339166 Andy Miller Julie Miller
4 Mikala L 13 4 4 0 1:47.4M $227203 George Brennan Nik Drennan
5 Boudoir Hanover 17 6 3 2 1:50.0F $242577 Todd McCarthy Tony Alagna
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RACE 10 - Meadowlands - NJ - November 25, 2023
Conditions: FANDUEL CHAMPIONSHIP Open Trot (Declaration Fee - $5,000 - 6-last 1% of purse - Points leader draws 1-6 - STAKES BARN Noon Saturday)
Gait: Trot Purse: 350,000 Class: FanDuel Distance: 1 MilePost Time: 10:05 PM (Detention 12:00 PM)
Pick 4 (10-13) $50K
PP Horse Med 2023 North America YTD Driver Trainer ML Claim
Equip Sts W P S Time Earnings Stable Odds Price
1 Tactical Approach
3, Tactical Landing-Sarcy 18 10 2 4 1:50.1M $1422239 Scott Zeron Nancy Takter
2 Take All Comers 13 5 2 1 1:50.4F $189200 Tim Tetrick Jim Campbell
3 Alrajah One It 4 2 1 0 1:50.2S $329600 Dexter Dunn Ake Svanstedt
4 It`s Academic L 17 8 3 4 1:50.2M $910751 David Miller Ron Burke
5 Southwind Tyrion L 11 4 2 1 1:50.2M $484316 Ake Svanstedt Ake Svanstedt
6 Delayed Hanover L† 24 6 2 5 1:51.4M $108768 Jordan Stratton Kevin Mc Dermott
7 Rattle My Cage L 9 0 2 5 - $250657 Yannick Gingras Ake Svanstedt
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RACE 6 - Meadowlands - NJ - November 25, 2023
Conditions: FANDUEL CHAMPIONSHIP Open Mares (Declaration Fee - $2,500 - 6-last 1% - STAKES BARN Noon Saturday)
Gait: Trot Purse: 175,000 Class: FanDuel Distance: 1 MilePost Time: 8:25 PM (Detention 12:00 PM)
Pick 4 (6-9) $50K
PP Horse Med 2023 North America YTD Driver Trainer ML Claim
Equip Sts W P S Time Earnings Stable Odds Price
1 M-m`s Dream L 14 7 3 2 1:50.0M $652452 David Miller Ron Burke
2 Bond
3, Southwind Frank-
Boccone Dolce 12 8 1 1 1:51.2S $803321 Ake Svanstedt Ake Svanstedt
3 Raised By Lindy L 12 2 1 2 1:51.1S $127252 Scott Zeron Domenico Cecere
4 Jiggy Jog S 10 7 3 0 1:50.3S $950986 Dexter Dunn Ake Svanstedt
5 Swans Eye L 20 4 1 2 1:53.3F $83126 Andy Miller Rocco Fava
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After the race, you can call him Counterfeit.
ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
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Pathetic that they couldn't muster larger fields in the other races!!
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Tetrick has to leave here and keep going if nobody gives him a tuck. He actually was handicapped with an outside post as an invite with zero points earned for post 1-6.
What points are you talking about? He is the only 3yr old that got the invite and drew outside. The rest got lucky
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What points are you talking about? He is the only 3yr old that got the invite and drew outside. The rest got lucky
Condition reads point leaders draw PP 1-6
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CON-federate could not have drawn posts 1-6 because he never raced in the series and received no points, which guaranteed him a poor post draw. Was Diamond Creek informed of this ahead of time?
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It's on the Condition sheet. I'm sure Bowden read the sheet before accepting the invite. Whats interesting is that the open trot has the same conditions and Tactical Approach has the rail. How is that possible?
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Only the leader drew for 1-6. Like an elimination winner. The rest were open draws
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Only the leader drew for 1-6. Like an elimination winner. The rest were open draws
It must be so nice to be wrong one day and then correct yourself and act like you know it all the next.
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Bowden knew. Pelling knew. I don't know how many point-getters there were, so I don't know if Confederate was guaranteed post 7 at best. As far as I was concerned, didn't matter. Just another hurdle to overcome. Big hurdles here.
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Burke keeps his horses on the track longer and does not hide from small tracks. How Burke took Foiled Again and Atlanta to different tracks at the end of their careers shows he cares more about the sport than other big stables.
Hell I remember Foiled Again appearing at Shennendoah in Winchester Va.
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Burke keeps his horses on the track longer and does not hide from small tracks. How Burke took Foiled Again and Atlanta to different tracks at the end of their careers shows he cares more about the sport than other big stables.
Burke is a racing operation. Not strictly a grand-circuit operation. Racing, racehorses, that's his business model. Wherever they win they race. If you think he is keeping horses on the track longer because of caring about the sport you are being naive. As far as hiding from small tracks, case by case. If he has horses who can't get around a half, they don't race on a half. If one gets skippy or has trouble with the turns, he keeps them away from small tracks/tight turns. And lastly, what he did with Foiled Again and Atlanta at the end of their careers does not show how much he cares about the sport. Just because he made a comment about being glad people got to see FA or Atlanta doesn't mean that was his motivation. He runs the biggest business in the sport. That's first and foremost for him.
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Hell I remember Foiled Again appearing at Shennendoah in Winchester Va.
When he won the race there it was a special $25,000 Open, and Burke had one in the same trot race too. Exception not the rule with Burke.
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You are wrong. He did not take Foiled Again to fairs or have him available for photos with fans at Delaware to make money. He did not race Foiled Again at The Meadows on New Year's Eve night in a nothing race for money. He did not take Atlanta to Delaware on Jug day for money. I was surprised to see Atlanta racing on a half but it was her last year and it was a big crowd who wanted to see her. It is certainly a business but he also makes his "stars" available to the fans. Burke often has some of his better horses in the grandstand on big days at The Meadows.
How many times has Atlanta raced on a half? She was in Delaware her last year as much for the fans as for any other reason.
I root for Burke for a simple and no doubt biased reason and that is he is USA born and bred. Is he squeeky clean? Who the fuck really knows but I am sick and tired of foreign pieces of shit winning big races. There, I said it. If you don't like it, go fuck yourself.
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“As for the decision to race in the FanDuel Pace, it was a matter of nothing to lose while something great for the game,” said five-time Meadowlands Pace-winner Brett Pelling, the trainer of Confederate. “As far as the race is concerned, I think all three horses have put in superlative, dominant efforts all season, which turns this into a driver/trainer race. Who gets the performance on a cool night in late November?”
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You are wrong. He did not take Foiled Again to fairs or have him available for photos with fans at Delaware to make money. He did not race Foiled Again at The Meadows on New Year's Eve night in a nothing race for money. He did not take Atlanta to Delaware on Jug day for money. I was surprised to see Atlanta racing on a half but it was her last year and it was a big crowd who wanted to see her. It is certainly a business but he also makes his "stars" available to the fans. Burke often has some of his better horses in the grandstand on big days at The Meadows.
How many times has Atlanta raced on a half? She was in Delaware her last year as much for the fans as for any other reason.
Selective reading and response. I didn't say he didn't take the horse to fairs or Delaware or pose for photos, or shake hands, and kiss babies, to make money -- but I am glad you did. He does it all for the fans! He's a Saint! Go hail him!
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He did it for two years with Foiled Again and he was showcasing Atlanta her last year.
Showcasing for the fans! Just for the fans! Make sure he gets the credit now!
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RACE 11 - Meadowlands - NJ - November 25, 2023
Conditions: FANDUEL CHAMPIONSHIP Open Pace (Declaration Fee - $5,000 )
Gait: Pace Purse: 350,000 Class: FanDue lDistance: 1 MilePost Time: 10:30 PM (Detention 12:00 PM)
PP Horse Med 2023 North America YTD Driver Trainer ML Claim
Equip Sts W P S Time Earnings Stable Odds Price
1 Southwind Gendry L 22 6 2 4 1:47.2F $112002 Joe Bongiorno Ron Burke 20-1
2 I Did It Myway 17 6 3 0 1:47.3M $279217 Jordan Stratton Chuck Crissman Jr 25-1
3 Bythemissal 15 11 1 1 1:47.1M $901541 Yannick Gingras Ron Burke 3-2
4 Tattoo Artist L 23 9 6 2 1:47.3S $933962 Louis Roy Chris Ryder 4-1
5 Abuckabett Hanover 12 3 2 2 1:47.2S $191203 Dexter Dunn Andrew Harris 10-1
6 Allywag Hanover L 16 3 2 1 1:47.2M $420788 Todd McCarthy Brett Pelling 8-1
7 Taurasi L 15 2 4 3 1:47.2M $174351 Andrew McCarthy Tony Alagna 20-1
8 Lou`s Pearlman L 24 3 5 2 1:49.0F $328750 David Miller Ron Burke 12-1
9 Confederate
3, Sweet Lou-Geothermal L 14 13 1 0 1:46.1M $1630354 Tim Tetrick Brett Pelling 7-2
10 Linedrive Hanover 16 3 2 5 1:47.0S $191210 Scott Zeron Linda Toscano 15-1
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Confederate, NO CHANCE, especially way out there. Missile for fun at 1-2.
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Bythemissal is the big M/L favorite to boot at 3/2! Is it possible the bettors can get a final odds on CON-federate of 2/1?
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Great Great race its going to be...the top 3 horses have 3 of the best drivers in the sport...the three trainers all great...with Pelling being the best in history of sport.. bymissle and tattoo have big post edge on confederate...all waywG will be making sure of pace....if confederate in shouting distance turning for home my pick....don't be shocked..you heard it here... confederate on the boiler the entire race....
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Even better after the race when Bowden gets pegged by MC, after the loss. A double forfeiture. ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 Carrot top gets ruined.
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How can CON-federate ever see the lead before the 1/2, yet the only way he has a chance at winning is to have the lead at the top of the stretch, but Yannick might not let him go. Tetrick MUST leave, but will someone give him a 5th place tuck immediately?
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Saturday's program pages: https://playmeadowlands.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/mxx1125p.pdf
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How can CON-federate ever see the lead before the 1/2, yet the only way he has a chance at winning is to have the lead at the top of the stretch, but Yannick might not let him go. Tetrick MUST leave, but will someone give him a 5th place tuck immediately?
Confederate is way better off a helmet, what are you talking about?
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Confederate is way better off a helmet, what are you talking about?
He's better off a helmet when he has to pass a mediocre bunch of 3 year olds. He has never had to close against the horses he is facing Saturday night.
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Then why isn't he racing next year? He would do much more to bring fans to the sport racing than he will on some breeding farm some where.
The owners, who put their capital at risk, and the trainers, who are entrusted to help the owners manage that risk and maximize ROI, are not here to satisfy or appease you. Period. If you think different you are a fool.
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Bythemissal is the ML favorite because of the draw. Reverse him and Confederate and Confederate is the ML favorite (which is what I wanted to see).
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Confederate is way better off a helmet, what are you talking about?
He has to leave from post 9 but where is the tuck into a forward position in this class of horses? He could be parked out the entire mile. Tetrick might have to TRY to gun and go for broke at the start. If he does not leave from post 9, his race is over most likely. Yannick will be in COMPLETE control the first half of this race. I hope they don't file out with a slow 2nd 1/4 and little action. Sometimes these races do not live up to the hype. Trackmaster does not even rate Bythemissal as a 1,2 or 3 POWER rating to boot!
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As an aside, Abuckabett Hanover's trainer Harris has a bad winning % his last 134 starts on the program:
Trainer - ANDREW HARRIS (St 134 W 7% P 10% S 15% UTR .176)------------and Pollock game him over $6 MILLION of horse flesh to train?
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Ken Warkentin comments: RACE 11
9-Confederate – #1 in the sport & HOY favorite looks to go out on a 12-race winning streak, post nine no picnic against Open foes, but this Brett Pelling trainee is in a league of his own
3-Bythemissal – Division dominator on the verge of another $1M season, equaled a track record of 1:47.1 in the Sam McKee, draws inside fresh off a Rosecroft track record in the Potomac after crushing the Breeders Crown
4-Tattoo Artist – Leading money winner in his division, last year’s runner up to The Bulldog, triple millionaire caps a wonderful career & draws inside fresh off a solid second in the Potomac
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Say what you want about this year's 3yo division. You can't deny Confederate is explosive when he is asked to go. I hope the race lives up to the hype. I'd like to catch a price on Confederate but there are a handful that can win if it sets up right for them.
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those mediocre 3 yr olds went in 148.2 last night in the progress
but confederate was in a class of his own
lets hope for a solid race and the key horses get a shot in the lane
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I really can't believe there are so many here that think Confederate has a chance in hell. NO WAY. Missile will be 1/2 . Tattoo Artist will take decent $$ , A few Allywag shot-takers. Gotta be at least 5/2. Whatever odds, he AINT gonna win.
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Bowden will be bowing to the porcelain potty after this race. Smug fuk.
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It will be cold and in the 30s by this race.
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This from HRU
TIM TETRICK ON THE BIG WEEKEND
“There was not a lot of pressure in 2013 when Captaintreacherou s
tried this. He only got beat a couple lengths. That was a year with a
very tough bunch of older pacers. He was fine, and at 4 he was too.
“I remember that night winning the TVG with Market Share from
the outside post on the lead. I didn’t race him there much. If
you looked at him, you probably weren’t that impressed. His
gait wasn’t the best, but he was so darn fast.”
“Confederate is like Muggsy Bogues (smallest NBA star ever at
5’3”) out there, but competes like Michael Jordan. He is not like
some of those much bigger stronger types, but he is so fast and
keeps on going. I can’t think of a single horse who has passed
him. It’s been a great ride. I’m going to be sad, heart-broken
when he retires.
“Confederate has a little advantage over Captaintreacherou s in
this situation. With Captain, I had to race him or move him to
the front as he was the huge favorite. Confederate is used to
coming after horses and he loves it
“I still say Walner is the greatest horse I’ve ever driven. It’s such
a shame that people never got to see what he really could do.”
Any regrets about not going faster than 1:46.1 this
year with him?
“I never pulled the plugs and he was idling the last four, five pylons.”
Could he have gone faster?
“Yes, but I don’t think it’s such a good idea. You never want to
go to the absolute bottom of the tank. You can’t be sure how
they will race after that.
“When you drive a lot of great horses, you tend to take it for
granted. I had Heston Blue Chip, Chapter Seven, Market Share,
Captaintreacherou s, American Jewel and horses like that all at
the same time and at that moment, you feel this will happen
every year. It’s only later you realize how it works, that is not the
case. You have to appreciate it when it’s there.
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Tetrick also talked about trying to sit a 4 hole while they burn it up top. Yannick's mode of driving (very frequently) is the get the top and then really slow the middle half. Thus, even if there is a horse behind him who is faster for the mile, it really turns into a quarter mile sprint. If Tetrick is not more aggressive he may find himself in a similar situation to what happened in the Pepsi North American. I personally think that Confederate is the better horse; however Tattoo Artist the Missile are both in peak shape, so it will be one hell of a race.
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DRF program page version: https://v.fastcdn.co/u/1361f4ff/64671567-0-MEADOWLANDS11-25.pdf
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Why should any driver let Tetrick 'SLIDE' into 4th place as a courtesy tuck any way? They could force him to be parked if they wanted to.
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Trackmaster does not even rate Bythemissal as a 1,2 or 3 POWER rating to boot!
That’s a good point. Can someone explain to me how 20-1(ml), Post 7 Taurasi has a HIGHER Power Rating than Bythemissal? Besides beating Taurasi a number of times, BTM’s “numbers” are better in just about every measure.
I’m assuming this is NOT a misprint.
Babi
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Keep in mind there are 2 other Burke horses entered plus Pelling's Allywag. These are the variables to alter the race. I expect Bythemissle, Tattoo to blast and Allywag likely parked past the quarter but pressing on. I expect Confederate will be following him. If Allywag clears I like Confederates chances to win. If Bythemissle refuses to let Allywag clear he runs the risk of emptying the tank by the 3/4s
What if pigs like Southwind Gendry blast and protect rail
Also wouldn't rule out Abuckabett Hanover with the right trip
I dont see Tattoo Artist based on his last couple winning this
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Crazy things can happen like. Yannick getting to the 1/4 in 27.4 and to the half in 55.4. And if so , turn out the lights.
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Why should any driver let Tetrick 'SLIDE' into 4th place as a courtesy tuck any way? They could force him to be parked if they wanted to.
So they can follow him when he pulls and get a second over trip to get a good piece of the 350k.
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Is there anywhere someone can watch this without a wagering account or an RTN subscription?
Meadowlands website.
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Tonight's the night, that the CONDFEDERATE gets a loss, Bowden a word of advise bring the lube.
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"This year, I feel...not more confident because they're both great horses, but my horse has learned to race off the pace and knows how to go attack one," said Tetrick in terms of facing the likes of Bythemissal. "Second over, that's his bread and butter. If I could ever be in that spot, or if I can make Bythemissal do the work and I follow him, I think I could rip his bridle off.
"I don't think I can go out and get beat up and still win," Tetrick continued. "He can do it on the lead but I can't have four horses going after him."----------"It was windy, you know, he did all the work, we went :28, :28, :28 and :27 home into the wind in the qualifier," said Tetrick. "Brett said, 'Were you happy?' I'm like 'heck yeah, I was happy. He was good.' He goes, 'he'll be nine times better come Saturday.' He said his horse is going to breathe fire on Saturday. I was excited about that."
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(https://external-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/emg1/v/t13/1209887934419720695?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstandardbredcanada.ca%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fstyles%2Fheadline_image_1024_x_577%2Fpublic%2F2023-11%2FTimTetrick-Confederate-YannickGingras-Bythemissal-V1-1024px.jpg%3Fitok%3DNLNe9F8k&fb_obo=1&utld=standardbredcanada.ca&stp=c0.5000x0.5000f_dst-jpg_flffffff_p500x261_q75&ccb=13-1&oh=06_AbFPjG48xewBnKx8z-zh7DsNEDWg95_DSpIFNt9LVRmhGw&oe=6563A750&_nc_sid=dbad39)
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Adam Bowden after TONGHT'S LOSS :1 11.mq :1
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If Allywag has a chance to beat Confederate, would Todd Mccarthy go all out to win or would he just take second?
Hot Toddy will win if he can.
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regardless of the outcome i appreciate them entering confederate and giving us one hell of a sendoff to the 2023 season
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Confederate is a great horse. Can’t say as much for his connections. Just too much crap for me to cheer him on. Skipping the Jug, Setup world record. Midnight visits to stables without notifying trainers. (Even if he was not at the track). And skipping a 4 year old campaign, even a shortened one.
He will get the best mares in the business and Diamond Creek will keep the best.
All that is what this business has come too.
Sorry big boy but I have to favor the others. Hope you come out of the race sound and healthy..
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Confederate is a great horse. Can’t say as much for his connections. Just too much crap for me to cheer him on. Skipping the Jug, Setup world record. Midnight visits to stables without notifying trainers. (Even if he was not at the track). And skipping a 4 year old campaign, even a shortened one.
He will get the best mares in the business and Diamond Creek will keep the best.
All that is what this business has come too.
Sorry big boy but I have to favor the others. Hope you come out of the race sound and healthy..
Who is your pick?? I put a few on confederate just because
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Who is your pick?? I put a few on confederate just because
tmbz1 tmbz1 tmbz1
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You might actually get 3-1 on Confederate tonight which is hard to believe considering he has won easily at 1-9 in just about every race prior. However, as long as Yannick doesn't overdrive, I can't see Confederate reaching but I don't trust Yannick so I am keeping my money in my pocket just like the pussy I am.
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You might actually get 3-1 on Confederate tonight which is hard to believe considering he has won easily at 1-9 in just about every race prior. However, as long as Yannick doesn't overdrive, I can't see Confederate reaching but I don't trust Yannick so I am keeping my money in my pocket just like the pussy I am.
Only going to be $20. Of I can get 3/1. I’ll be happy
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Confederate will be 2-1 or less.
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Confederate will be 2-1 or less.
tmbz1 tmbz1 tmbz1
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Confederate will be 2-1 or less.
I’m hoping all these fools here bet BTM. And boost the odds
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Hopefully Burke saved all his pre race for the 11th. Or what should be race if the year will be a blow out. His are not firing at all so far
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If Confederate is within 3 or 4 lengths of these horses BTM etc, he blows by them like they are tied to the tote board
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If Confederate is within 3 or 4 lengths of these horses BTM etc, he blows by them like they are tied to the tote board
I agree
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the track is definitely funky tonight, you dont really want to be on the front end but you dont want to be first up...cover baby cover
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the track is definitely funky tonight, you dont really want to be on the front end but you dont want to be first up...cover baby cover
Agreed.
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except if you have a really sharp horse. Tyrion really ending his season strong. Ake deserves trainer of the year honors
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he is going to be the favorite..wow
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even money
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Confederate folded badly and Allywag who no one talked about at 17-1 wins it all
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That was bad
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Adam Bowden :1 :1 :1 :1 :1 :1 Take it you smug fucking asshole. I guess there were no late night barn visits last night you fuck!
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I have never seen a 3 yo be able to compete with aged horses.
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ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
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Confederate folded like Lee at Appomatix.... ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
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149.1 and got his head caved in.
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Confederate certainly not was at his best. Stopped like he bled thru Lasix IMO
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What about the amendment on the stud announcement that it would increase on racing performance? Do we get a 50% discount now? LOL
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lol Boudan owns part of Allywag too...lmfao
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not the best drive from tetrick
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Did I already mention how enjoyable this loss is to watch Adam Bowden ruin another perfect record...What Dickhead.
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We forget that Allywag was the one that took down 'The Bulldog'..Pelling still gets it done, despite the pitiful performance from his over-hyped Super Horse,Confederate, as proclaimed by more than few on here. Tough even for good 4yr olds to hold their own, let alone a 3yr old against these consistent quality versatile older bangers, I called The Missile, I was wrong but I wasn't wrong about Confederate
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Did I already mention how enjoyable this loss is to watch Adam Bowden ruin another perfect record...What Dickhead.
It just made no sense to race against older horses.
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Until the Breeders Crown, Confederate was managed not to lose. That is not greatness. The interview after the race said it all. Diamond Creek breeds horses to produce stallions. That is how to ruin any hope to grow the sport and attract new fans. Now more than ever I want the government handouts to end.
post the interview. Let the world see want an asshole Bowden is.
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If Bythemissal is healthy next year he is going to dominate.
we shall see. Horse is certainly beatable as he proved in some big races this year. Allywag isnt going anywhere. Abucketbett should be back. There were a couple 4 year olds that were raced conservatively like Stonebridge Helios and Mad Max Hanover that could jump up. Plus there will be someone from this years 3 year old crop who takes a giant leap up as happens every year.
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It just made no sense to race against older horses.
why not...what was there to lose, had everything to gain... a win would have added another 2-5K...a loss doesnt change his stud fee
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Confederate was managed not to lose. Finally he took a shot when it was not a sure thing and he was handed his hat.
reallly? he raced everywhere except for that shitty half mile Jug that somehow only rubes from the farm think is the biggest race in harness racing. It aint the 60s anymore
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If Confederate was one of the all time greatest like some were calling him, he would of won. He simply ain't.
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And Bythemissal will not be in that tough transition from three to four. Like this year, Allywag is not likely to be in top form consistently and Tattoo Artist is gone.
Allywag really got untracked by that awful accident in Canada. It took him over 6 weeks to find consistent form. He hasnt been that bad since then and he beat Bythemissal at Hoosier and Fan Duel. Bythemissal is a great horse, do not get me wrong but this isnt the second coming of Artsplace or Bulldog. Its very very tough to dominate a group the entire season.
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If Confederate was one of the all time greatest like some were calling him, he would of won. He simply ain't.
horses get beat. get over it. Post was tough as was the trip. Doesnt diminish how great a 3 year old he was this season...one of the all time bests
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I told y'all when Confederate was committed to this race that it will be a different story when all the others weren't racing for second! The way he was raced gives prudence to the fact that T.T. was aware of that also.Now all that has to finish the story is that either he scoped sick or couldn't get ahold of the track!
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The Jug is a million dollar race and is the most attended harness races every year and has been for decades. How many races did he race on a half? His babies will be racing on half mile tracks. He was hiding in Lexington in sire stakes setting an artificial mark set up by a stablemate. As the post race interview indicated, they breed horse to become stallions. That is a great way to ruin the future of the sport.
how much was the jug day handle.....where was he hiding...big deal he didnt race there just like the great Somebeachsomewher e. Look what happened to Its My Show and Seven Colors after the Jug...yeah I applaud Bowden from keeping Confederate away from that rat track
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why not...what was there to lose, had everything to gain... a win would have added another 2-5K...a loss doesnt change his stud fee
I had a Laag colt. He was a nickel piece of shit just like you.
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If Confederate was one of the all time greatest like some were calling him, he would of won. He simply ain't.
Finally, someone with a clue. Apparently this Laag poster is either Adam Bowden or related to him.
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“Confederate had the magic season, and we took a chance here (in the FanDuel) and it didn’t work out,” Bowden said. “But he’s still great in our book.” Confederate’s driver, Tim Tetrick, added, “He’s a cool dude. It’s hard to find that kind, and it’s very hard to replace them. He’s been very special.
“He’s been great all year. Today, he had a little hiccup, but it’s tough against those 5-, 6-, 7-year-old warhorses. He got beat, but he raced good, he raced hard. Bad drive, 26 (seconds) in the third quarter trying to get into the race, and I had to go wide to get into the race on the first turn. Nine-holes are tough. Sometimes they’re daggers.”---EXCUSES galore! He raced GOOD?! The horse STUNK tonight. This week Tetrick was very confident he could 'slide' into position then come after Bythemissal and win. Now he calls it a bad drive. Heck of a program line to end it all.
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reallly? he raced everywhere except for that shitty half mile Jug that somehow only rubes from the farm think is the biggest race in harness racing. It aint the 60s anymore
You're a fucking idiot.
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ooh look someone who thinks half mile racing is a thing
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There were actually people saying Confederate is one of the all time greats. ngc3 ngc3
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definitely one of the all time great 3yos..yes
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definitely one of the all time great 3yos..yes
Put down the pipe. He isn't even top 10 all time 3yo
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top 10 yeah i would put him there based on how much he won and his record....one loss vs 3yos..who else has that record. I would put him ahead of Tall Dark Stranger who was lost what twice as a 3yo and perhaps a tad ahead of Captain Treacherous but very close
not going to find many horses losing just once vs 3 yos
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top 10 yeah i would put him there based on how much he won and his record....one loss vs 3yos..who else has that record. I would put him ahead of Tall Dark Stranger who was lost what twice as a 3yo and perhaps a tad ahead of Captain Treacherous but very close
not going to find many horses losing just once vs 3 yos
How old are you, 16? 17? Ever hear of Bret Hanover? Niatross? Somebeachsomewher e? Most Happy Fella? No Pan Intended? Ralph Hanover? Blissful Hall? Rum Customer? Adios Butler? Romeo Hanover? Western Dreamer?
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Did Blissful Hall ever win a race at the Big M
Ah yeah I get it...half milers are everything your eyes
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Oh i got it you just did a google and copied a list of triple crown winners which has zero relevance today
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Did Blissful Hall ever win a race at the Big M
Ah yeah I get it...half milers are everything your eyes
No fool, triple crowns are and other than SBSW, all those horses won the triple crown for pacers. Learn some history shit for brains.
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Oh i got it you just did a google and copied a list of triple crown winners which has zero relevance today
I don't need to google triple crown winners. There are only 10 of them but I did google douchebag and your picture came up.
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Did Blissful Hall ever win a race at the Big M
Ah yeah I get it...half milers are everything your eyes
He won the Meadowlands Pace elimination jerkoff. He also won the American National at Balmoral breaking the world record. You're a moron.
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definitely one of the all time great 3yos..yes
He has had a great year but he ain’t no Beach
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Confederate showed he is the best among the 3 yo's this year. He hasn't proven he's one of the best of all time. Skipping the Jug was a safe move on Bowen's part. Trying to go against older horses was a bad decision.
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Finally, someone with a clue. Apparently this Laag poster is either Adam Bowden or related to him.
For sure.
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All we heard before the race was being a 3 year old didn’t matter. After the race it was a big thing. However, lets look at the other open races where there was just one 3 year old in each.
Open pacing mares. 3 year old wins.
Open mare trot. 3 year old 2 nd
Open colt trot . 3 year old 2 nd
Open colt pace 3 year old. 9 th.
Now we will see what reason from the book of excuses of why a horse got beat the connections use.
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Oops. He was 8 th.
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I'm "POSITIVE" (No pun intended), tat the story line will be that Confederate scoped sick. Bowden is a known liar and will do anything to cover up his greedy mistake that ended in a loss.
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Never heard. Did he 'Rip any bridles off?' Wasn't sure. One or two might have gotten snagged as he was backing thru the field. 11.wp 11.wp
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Bad decision making by Timmy. I feel like he could've tucked 5th but who knows. But had no chance with that trip.
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not going to find many horses losing just once vs 3 yos
you are an idiot
Niatross lost twice--does this make Confederate better than Niatross?
fucking dope
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You should have stopped after:" But he had no chance"...end of story. Nice three yr old. In 'WAY' over his head against those.
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I think the owners should petition the USTA to change his name to Counterfeit.
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Allywag really got untracked by that awful accident in Canada. It took him over 6 weeks to find consistent form. He hasnt been that bad since then and he beat Bythemissal at Hoosier and Fan Duel. Bythemissal is a great horse, do not get me wrong but this isnt the second coming of Artsplace or Bulldog. Its very very tough to dominate a group the entire season.
Artsplace was dominated by Precious Bunny all of 1991
your really need to learn history
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Confederate was managed not to lose. That is not greatness.
The same could be said for SBSW
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I'm "POSITIVE" (No pun intended), tat the story line will be that Confederate scoped sick. Bowden is a known liar and will do anything to cover up his greedy mistake that ended in a loss.
You are 100% right, they'll say he scoped sick...same whole story. That being said, we need more of this, this is what horse racing is. These days people race horses like this not to get beat. They had a good horse and wanted to take on older horses.....it didn't work out but they took a shot.
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You are 100% right, they'll say he scoped sick...same whole story. That being said, we need more of this, this is what horse racing is. These days people race horses like this not to get beat. They had a good horse and wanted to take on older horses.....it didn't work out but they took a shot.
If they had balls, they should bring Counterfeit, I mean Confederate back to race at 4.
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Artsplace was dominated by Precious Bunny all of 1991
your really need to learn history
Duh..im talking about Artsplace as an aged pacer and Bythemissal aint even close.
Somehow this horse has a ton of fanboys who are so consumed with Confederate hate that they are forgetting their superstar Bythemissal didnt win last night
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off that trip isnt allywag supposed to do exactly what he did
if allywag didnt win i would say that was a poor race on his part
perfect trip
you are supposed to win off that kind of trip
nothing wrong with bythemissle,got beat by a very good horse who tripped out on his back
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He won the Meadowlands Pace elimination jerkoff. He also won the American National at Balmoral breaking the world record. You're a moron.
Ooh he won a pace elimination than had his lunch handed to him by The Panderosa who won the 2 top races that year
The Triple Croqn in harness racing has been outdated for 30 years. The top 2 races are the North America Cup and Meadowlands Pace. if you want to use the Jug as part of the TC fine so there you go but the idea of winning 3 races on half mile tracks as some level of greatness while comparing to modern day racing where the Meadowlands and Mohawk are the standards is silly
Confederate didnt race in the half mile because there is no reason to. Same reason why Beach and Treacherous didnt. They all proved themselves everywhere else
Ask Its My Show and Seven Colors who turned into vegatables after the Jug
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off that trip isnt allywag supposed to do exactly what he did
if allywag didnt win i would say that was a poor race on his part
perfect trip
you are supposed to win off that kind of trip
nothing wrong with bythemissle,got beat by a very good horse who tripped out on his back
Pound for pound resume wise Allywag is the better horse overall
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Confederate didnt race in the half mile because there is no reason to. Same reason why Beach and Treacherous didnt. They all proved themselves everywhere else
SBSW won the Battle of Waterloo, (elims and final), the Confederation Cup (elim and final) and that race at Yonkers in the rain all on a 1/2 mile.
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All we heard before the race was being a 3 year old didn’t matter. After the race it was a big thing. However, lets look at the other open races where there was just one 3 year old in each.
Open pacing mares. 3 year old wins.
Open mare trot. 3 year old 2 nd
Open colt trot . 3 year old 2 nd
Open colt pace 3 year old. 9 th.
Now we will see what reason from the book of excuses of why a horse got beat the connections use.
True, but the others did not get post 9 which is a very difficult thing to overcome in any race. If CON-federate drew an inside post he would not have been 8th.
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HEFTY HANDLE: All-source wagering on the 14-race program totaled $3,691,553, the most at The Big M since Hambletonian Day, when $7.8 million was pushed through the windows.
On the corresponding card from a year ago, the handle was $3,398,962, so betting was up 8.6 percent over that program.
“Even with a pair of short [five-horse] fields, we managed to have a great night at the windows,” said track chief operating officer and general manager Jason Settlemoir. “All of us at the Meadowlands appreciate the support we get from our fan base, as well as our horsemen, who always put on a great show.”
Wagering has now gone past the $3-million mark 54 times during 2023 from 78 programs.
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SBSW won the Battle of Waterloo, (elims and final), the Confederation Cup (elim and final) and that race at Yonkers in the rain all on a 1/2 mile.
I know that Lance, but somehow there is a narrative that knocks his greatness because he skipped the Jug.
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Something definitely was off with Confederate last night. I know y’all think horses never get sick but …
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he didnt look comfortable right from the beginning. Also how much did Ronnie pay Dave to pull that nonsense pushing Confederate 5 wide with his rat
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Ooh he won a pace elimination than had his lunch handed to him by The Panderosa who won the 2 top races that year
The Triple Croqn in harness racing has been outdated for 30 years. The top 2 races are the North America Cup and Meadowlands Pace. if you want to use the Jug as part of the TC fine so there you go but the idea of winning 3 races on half mile tracks as some level of greatness while comparing to modern day racing where the Meadowlands and Mohawk are the standards is silly
Confederate didnt race in the half mile because there is no reason to. Same reason why Beach and Treacherous didnt. They all proved themselves everywhere else
Ask Its My Show and Seven Colors who turned into vegatables after the Jug
Once again, you are fucking moron. SBSW won the Messenger at Yonkers in a rain storm in 1:52. He would have gone sub 1:50 if the weather had cooperated. You need to quit posting. You're an embarrassment to the human race.
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valid point laag
easy solution
one entry per trainer in major stakes/finals
should have always been that way
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Something definitely was off with Confederate last night. I know y’all think horses never get sick but …
I agree with this. I am not sure he paces away from them in any case, but I can't believe he was 100%. Looked like he was spinning his wheels a bit the entire time.
The only other explanation is he is gutless. I would again find that hard to believe based on the year he's had, but he's also been bravened up all year and it does sometimes take a horse not getting by another handily (which again he has done all year) to expose a lack of intestinal fortitude, if you will. I don't consider this year's 3yo CP the strongest division we've ever seen. I guess we will never know since whether he was sick or not, that will be the excuse (or maybe he will be "injured" to get out of the Gural rule?) and regardless he'll never set foot on the track again.
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Ooh he won a pace elimination than had his lunch handed to him by The Panderosa who won the 2 top races that year
The Triple Croqn in harness racing has been outdated for 30 years. The top 2 races are the North America Cup and Meadowlands Pace. if you want to use the Jug as part of the TC fine so there you go but the idea of winning 3 races on half mile tracks as some level of greatness while comparing to modern day racing where the Meadowlands and Mohawk are the standards is silly
Confederate didnt race in the half mile because there is no reason to. Same reason why Beach and Treacherous didnt. They all proved themselves everywhere else
Ask Its My Show and Seven Colors who turned into vegatables after the Jug
Apparently you didn't watch the race or see the interviews after. Blissful Hall was locked in for his life and was running over horses at the wire. Even Campbell said that if Blissful Hall got out, The Panderosa would have been beaten.
Read and learn something fuck face.
https://hru.tempurl.host/2018/04/22/hall-of-fame-inductee-blissfull-hall-is-a-complete-specimen/
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HORSE WAS NOT SICK
HE RACED AGAINST THE BEST OLDER HORSES IN NORTH AMERICA
MISSLE GOT AWAY WITH AN EASY HALF ONLY HORSE THAT WAS BEATING HIM WAS A PERFECT TRIPPED OUT HORSE..
WHICH IS WHAT HAPPENED .
BOWDEN SHOULD HAVE RACED IN THE 3YR OLD RACE IF HE WAS STAKED TO IT
IMO ONLY MISTAKE WAS TIM NOT TAKING HIM ALL THE WAY TO THE FRONT BEFORE THE FIRST QUARTER MAYBE THEN HE GETS A CK ,,MAYBE ..
NICE 3 YR OLD NOT THE BEST EVER
FEW BETTER THAN HIM ..IMO
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HORSE WAS NOT SICK
HE RACED AGAINST THE BEST OLDER HORSES IN NORTH AMERICA
MISSLE GOT AWAY WITH AN EASY HALF ONLY HORSE THAT WAS BEATING HIM WAS A PERFECT TRIPPED OUT HORSE..
WHICH IS WHAT HAPPENED .
BOWDEN SHOULD HAVE RACED IN THE 3YR OLD RACE IF HE WAS STAKED TO IT
IMO ONLY MISTAKE WAS TIM NOT TAKING HIM ALL THE WAY TO THE FRONT BEFORE THE FIRST QUARTER MAYBE THEN HE GETS A CK ,,MAYBE ..
NICE 3 YR OLD NOT THE BEST EVER
FEW BETTER THAN HIM ..IMO
Another one who gets it. Confederate wasn't trying to pass El Rey and Cannibal. He was overmatched in that field.
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Funny USTA headline... Allywag wins...Confederat e 8th! ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
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Apparently you didn't watch the race or see the interviews after. Blissful Hall was locked in for his life and was running over horses at the wire. Even Campbell said that if Blissful Hall got out, The Panderosa would have been beaten.
Read and learn something fuck face.
https://hru.tempurl.host/2018/04/22/hall-of-fame-inductee-blissfull-hall-is-a-complete-specimen/
Lmfao if my aunt had balls...cry me a river about a horse 19-31 lifetime
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Lmfao if my aunt had balls...cry me a river about a horse 19-31 lifetime
I think I'll take the opinions of JC and Ben Wallace over a jackwagon like you.
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Tetrick post-race interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LQ32ce_6Bc
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I think I'll take the opinions of JC and Ben Wallace over a jackwagon like you.
And a total dud at stud..wonder why he didnt race at 4
Gee he gave us Camelot Hall an afterthought from the deep 2004c3 yo division
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And a total dud at stud..wonder why he didnt race at 4
Gee he gave us Camelot Hall an afterthought from the deep 2004c3 yo division
Irrelevant. We are talking about 3 year old RACEHORSES dickface.
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Confederate did not look himself warming up last night. He looked even more not himself during the race warm up, scoring down, etc...and he raced like it. He was not himself from the get go. It would not have made that much of a difference. He would have been third at best. No, not a great drive by TT, but he played the cards he was dealt. He had little he could do. I am sure all the internet-based, armchair drivers will have plenty to say. Confederate was very keyed up, on the bit, but that too wouldn't have made a difference. Losing did not hurt his stud value at all. People who would breed to him are not going to change their mind because of last night. Losing last night didn't make a difference on the stallion side of this. Blow to Adam's ego, sure, I can see that, but stud value, doesn't matter. Breeders will breed to him because he was extremely dominant over his peers. Argue whether it's a weak crop or not, but being extremely dominant is what will fill his book. As far as where he ranks against the best of other classes, well it's simple, you can either look at stats, accomplishments, and so on...or you can know what you are looking at and look at the how he does what he does. Very talented horse. I like how he did what he did. He's got the tools. I am just not putting him in the class of the best 3yo's I have seen in the last 30 years or so.
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Irrelevant. We are talking about 3 year old RACEHORSES dickface.
LAAG sounds like a dildo. Probably Marcus, or Adam in disguise.
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Confederate did not look himself warming up last night. He looked even more not himself during the race warm up, scoring down, etc...and he raced like it. He was not himself from the get go. It would not have made that much of a difference. He would have been third at best. No, not a great drive by TT, but he played the cards he was dealt. He had little he could do. I am sure all the internet-based, armchair drivers will have plenty to say. Confederate was very keyed up, on the bit, but that too wouldn't have made a difference. Losing did not hurt his stud value at all. People who would breed to him are not going to change their mind because of last night. Losing last night didn't make a difference on the stallion side of this. Blow to Adam's ego, sure, I can see that, but stud value, doesn't matter. Breeders will breed to him because he was extremely dominant over his peers. Argue whether it's a weak crop or not, but being extremely dominant is what will fill his book. As far as where he ranks against the best of other classes, well it's simple, you can either look at stats, accomplishments, and so on...or you can know what you are looking at and look at the how he does what he does. Very talented horse. I like how he did what he did. He's got the tools. I am just not putting him in the class of the best 3yo's I have seen in the last 30 years or so.
Not getting his way soured him up. Few will remember him for his set up mile in a very short field . He will be remembered for not firing when the going got tough.
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Not getting his way soured him up. Few will remember him for his set up mile in a very short field . He will be remembered for not firing when the going got tough.
No doubt. He got a bit hot being 6 wide heading into the first turn and then having to sprint up only to be put in a hole. As far as his record mile, it's a marketing point. Breeders are looking at how he did what he did in his entire body of work, and not in that race. They needed a fast time for him and that's how they got it.
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He probably had the "jitters" from a double tube of "Blood Checker solution! Anyone who has been around for a bit knows that some people think that if 5cc was good,10cc will double the performance! ngc3
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No doubt. He got a bit hot being 6 wide heading into the first turn and then having to sprint up only to be put in a hole. As far as his record mile, it's a marketing point. Breeders are looking at how he did what he did in his entire body of work, and not in that race. They needed a fast time for him and that's how they got it.
This is true, and I get it. They managed him to look as good as possible. For those who saw his record mile..yeah, he went that fast but it was handed to him on a silver platter.
I really like the horse, and I'm not disputing he's really talented, but I have certainly seen way more tough individuals in my life.
That said, what does that mean in the breeding shed? Muscle Hill never faced anything that even gave him a concern so who knows how tough he was. The one horse who out-toughed SBSW did exactly zero as a sire. I guess we'll all see.
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Duh..im talking about Artsplace as an aged pacer and Bythemissal aint even close.
Somehow this horse has a ton of fanboys who are so consumed with Confederate hate that they are forgetting their superstar Bythemissal didnt win last night
Mike, I agree with a lot of what you have said, but he will get 140 stud fees of $20,000 (or the equivalent from purchase of shares in the syndicate if/when one is done) for $2,800,000 for 2024, 2025 and 2026 (by which time people will start to get a flavor of his success as a sire, thus increasing/decreasing/steadying that stud fee and income.) That is $8.4mm guaranteed income. While as an owner and super fan I would love to see him race at 4, the economics are just too compelling for them to take the chance that he has a "flat" season and damages his future income stream. Also, even if he were successful he is unlikely to earn half of his stud fees for 2024 and is also unlikely to enhance his stud fees going forward, so the decision to put him on the bench, while not admirable, is totally understandable.
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Mike, I agree with a lot of what you have said, but he will get 140 stud fees of $20,000 (or the equivalent from purchase of shares in the syndicate if/when one is done) for $2,800,000 for 2024, 2025 and 2026 (by which time people will start to get a flavor of his success as a sire, thus increasing/decreasing/steadying that stud fee and income.) That is $8.4mm guaranteed income. While as an owner and super fan I would love to see him race at 4, the economics are just too compelling for them to take the chance that he has a "flat" season and damages his future income stream. Also, even if he were successful he is unlikely to earn half of his stud fees for 2024 and is also unlikely to enhance his stud fees going forward, so the decision to put him on the bench, while not admirable, is totally understandable.
I understand the economics of why they are retiring him. However, his sire Sweet Lou although a very good horse at 2 and 3 and actually maybe better than Confederate, enhanced his value by racing at 4 and 5. IMO
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Sweet Lou who I love had a disappointing 4 year old campaign and his 3 year old season was very up and down. He was a monster at 5 but even a bigger stud making coin for Adam and the crew
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Sweet Lou who I love had a disappointing 4 year old campaign and his 3 year old season was very up and down. He was a monster at 5 but even a bigger stud making coin for Adam and the crew
He still made over 300K as a 4 year old but yes, his 5 year old season was incredible.
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This is true, and I get it. They managed him to look as good as possible. For those who saw his record mile..yeah, he went that fast but it was handed to him on a silver platter.
I really like the horse, and I'm not disputing he's really talented, but I have certainly seen way more tough individuals in my life.
That said, what does that mean in the breeding shed? Muscle Hill never faced anything that even gave him a concern so who knows how tough he was. The one horse who out-toughed SBSW did exactly zero as a sire. I guess we'll all see.
Agreed. He didn't look good at all last night, but like I said, it won't hurt him at all with the breeders. His fast mile is meaningless as far his ability or talent. Like I said, it's marketing. Nothing more. The breeders, people whose opinion actually counts as far as Bowden is concerned will look at "how" he did what he did, not "how fast" he went in that mile because like you said it was handed to him. They are looking at him as a stallion. You are right about MH. Look at who he did it against, vs. how he did what he did. His peers meant nothing for his stallion career. SBSW is the perfect example however. Idiots spout his defeat and the fact that he skipped the LBJ. It means nothing as people who know, whose opinion counts, count him has the greatest horse to look through a bridle since Niatross or whomever they picked as their previous best.
Many experts felt the same about Artsplace. Not Precious Bunny, not Die Laughing, and so on (from that or other crops as a whole). Artsplace was far more talented than all of his peers. He was not healthy for any substantial period of time as a 3yo, but qualified, expert, breeders opinions didn't change because of that. Although he was still extremely competitive at 3. Then he showed what he was really made of at 4. People looked at how he did what he did and they knew what they were looking at. As far as pedigree, I like Confederate's maternal family a lot, but that doesn't mean I am waiting in line to breed to him or buy a yearling by him. For me, it would be individual, not sire.
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Agreed. He didn't look good at all last night, but like I said, it won't hurt him at all with the breeders. His fast mile is meaningless as far his ability or talent. Like I said, it's marketing. Nothing more. The breeders, people whose opinion actually counts as far as Bowden is concerned will look at "how" he did what he did, not "how fast" he went in that mile because like you said it was handed to him. They are looking at him as a stallion. You are right about MH. Look at who he did it against, vs. how he did what he did. His peers meant nothing for his stallion career. SBSW is the perfect example however. Idiots spout his defeat and the fact that he skipped the LBJ. It means nothing as people who know, whose opinion counts, count him has the greatest horse to look through a bridle since Niatross or whomever they picked as their previous best.
Many experts felt the same about Artsplace. Not Precious Bunny, not Die Laughing, and so on (from that or other crops as a whole). Artsplace was far more talented than all of his peers. He was not healthy for any substantial period of time as a 3yo, but qualified, expert, breeders opinions didn't change because of that. Although he was still extremely competitive at 3. Then he showed what he was really made of at 4. People looked at how he did what he did and they knew what they were looking at. As far as pedigree, I like Confederate's maternal family a lot, but that doesn't mean I am waiting in line to breed to him or buy a yearling by him. For me, it would be individual, not sire.
Artsplace was completely healthy at age 3--he just got his ass handed to him all year by a juiced up Precious Bunny
Artsplace fans always make excuses for his 3yo season, kind of mindboggling
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Artsplace was held out of the jug for apparent sickness, though half mile wouldn't have suited him anyhow. But RIGHT ON!, The Bunny Won NAC, M[1] Pace, Adios, Jug. HOY '91
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Precious Bunny was a much better horse than Confederate. He could leave the switch as fast as anything.
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Precious Bunny was a much better horse than Confederate. He could leave the switch as fast as anything.
His blasting the gate from post #6 in his Jug elim was memorable to say the least
He had a brilliant season
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New surface and pylons first time that year. Can still hear 'OUR BUDDY'S' call. "Fast out the gate to get to the hubless rail, Precious Bunny by three." Sorry about your luck Richie Silverman and Die Laughing off the rail.
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Fun Fact
Precious Bunny was the first horse to pace a sub 1:50 mile at night
M1 Pace 1991
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please enough talk about precious bunny, you are embarrassing yourselves
nice horse but we know why
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please enough talk about precious bunny, you are embarrassing yourselves
nice horse but we know why
Art Stafford must be kicking himself for selling him as a 2 year old but maybe he never becomes what he did with him. Who knows??
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A few clarifying points on these figures. These are substantially off because you are presuming 100% live foal rate, when in reality these are more likely in the 70% range. In addition, Diamond Creek will undoubtedly breed their own mares to Confederate, further reducing the income from stud fees in North America.
What will likely more than offset the reduced income from North America is I believe they will make Confederate a dual hemisphere stallion. The income this will generate will be substantial as there is no limit on how many breedings a stallion can do Down Under.
So, while your projections are not correct for North America, your conclusion on the economics justifying retiring Confederate now are certainly correct.
Mike, I agree with a lot of what you have said, but he will get 140 stud fees of $20,000 (or the equivalent from purchase of shares in the syndicate if/when one is done) for $2,800,000 for 2024, 2025 and 2026 (by which time people will start to get a flavor of his success as a sire, thus increasing/decreasing/steadying that stud fee and income.) That is $8.4mm guaranteed income. While as an owner and super fan I would love to see him race at 4, the economics are just too compelling for them to take the chance that he has a "flat" season and damages his future income stream. Also, even if he were successful he is unlikely to earn half of his stud fees for 2024 and is also unlikely to enhance his stud fees going forward, so the decision to put him on the bench, while not admirable, is totally understandable.
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mike, i think we /you know the answer to that question on precious bunny
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mike, i think we /you know the answer to that question on precious bunny
Yes I do but it is the holiday season and I need to be nicer. LOL
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Wasn't there some weird dude who dressed up with bunny ears that year?
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Peter Cottontail.
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Peter Cottontail.
ngc3
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What will likely more than offset the reduced income from North America is I believe they will make Confederate a dual hemisphere stallion. The income this will generate will be substantial as there is no limit on how many breedings a stallion can do Down Under.
Do they have to ship the horse to Aus/NZ?
Or just the gook?
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No requirement to ship the horse, but he will breed to a lot more mares using live "gook."
Do they have to ship the horse to Aus/NZ?
Or just the gook?