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General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: Bogeyman on March 23, 2024, 10:51:30 AM
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Rookie question - are different driving/handling skills required for drivers racing trotters and pacers? It would seem to me there may be different skills required when driving the two different gaits.
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Rookie question - are different driving/handling skills required for drivers racing trotters and pacers? It would seem to me there may be different skills required when driving the two different gaits.
Sometimes, yes. But, todays trotter is much safer than those of yesteryear. Back then, you had people who fancied themselves as "trottingmen".
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There used to be trotting guys and pacing guys…..I find now there are a lot of guys that can go either way…..that’s my kind of trainer.
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lost aof drivers now a days go both ways
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IMHO
It depends more on the horse then the gait.
I have driven trotters that you couldn't knock off their feet.
I have driven pacers that you couldn't breathe heavy or they might take off on a dead run.
In an inhouse interview at Sportsman's Park Eleanor Flavin asked Bea Farber that same question.
Bea "To drive a trotter you got to tighten up your bra straps a little more".
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I agree that today there is probably much less separation between the two; however, back in the 70's and early 80's if I had a trotter racing at either Yonkers or Roosevelt I would always try and get John Patterson Jr as first choice and Benny Webster as #2. I owned ONLY trotters for 30 years (with one exception for a pacer I leased) and it was MY OPINION (and shared by several others involved with mostly trotters, including Ron Gurfein) that there were 4 or 5 drivers whose hands seemed to work better with trotters than many of the other drivers. Over the years the drivers whom my trotters had the most success with were Benny Webster, John Campbell, Walter Case, John Patterson Jr., Mike Gagliardi and Ron Waples. These days Yannick seems to have a great feel for the trotters he drives.
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LaChance and Pierce have to be in the conversation.
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Bernt Linstedt, Jan Johnson too. Any time there is talk of trotters, Carl Allen should be mentioned.
Note the great # of trotters on hopples nowadays, which he invented. tmbz1
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John Browning in 1865 invented the trotting hopples. Can learn a lot by googling
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In Maine it was Dougie Gray.
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I'll take your word for it Parked. Let's just say Allen brought it into play in the modern era.
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I'll take your word for it Parked. Let's just say Allen brought it into play in the modern era.
Ken Shand from Australia had a hand in it.
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The best 2 trot drivers I saw back in the day,
John Patterson jr
William Odonnell
I think those 2 had a knack for driving trotters.
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I think near the end of his career Trevor Ritchie only drove trotters.
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LaChance and Pierce have to be in the conversation.
I agree, but they were in the "sandwich years" when my ownership was tapering down, so if one looks at the 90's, certainly Mike was a trotting "king" with 5 Hambo and Hambo Oaks wins from 1990 to 2003 and 10 Breeders Crown Trot wins from 1990-2009, while Ron Pierce was winning 6 Hambos and Hambo Oaks during that same time period.
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Great drivers in every way. The "trotting man" is quite subjective. These guys were driving the best trotters in the world. Not to diminish their record but, this is not how I would rate a true trotting man. He would be one who was able to get high speed and sure footedness from trotters that all others could not.
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I don't think there has every been anyone that make a trotter look so fluid as Åke Svanstedt. Every single one of his that race look so natural.
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Great drivers in every way. The "trotting man" is quite subjective. These guys were driving the best trotters in the world. Not to diminish their record but, this is not how I would rate a true trotting man. He would be one who was able to get high speed and sure footedness from trotters that all others could not.
👍👍👍👍👍
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Sometimes, yes. But, todays trotter is much safer than those of yesteryear. Back then, you had people who fancied themselves as "trottingmen".
I remember 4 plus inch toes, toe weights and heavy (orange) bell boots . Brown bell boots were the lightest, then white, then white ribbed and finally the orange. There were also weighted quarter boots. Anyone remember the rattlers ?.
Where are all those trotting bred pacers ??
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I don't think there has every been anyone that make a trotter look so fluid as Åke Svanstedt. Every single one of his that race look so natural.
Stanley Dancer
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For me, I never owned a lot of trotters or owned them regularly. If something special came along, or there was a great opportunity, value, etc., then I would pull the trigger. But I never went out of my way to look for them. Regardless, back in the day, I always felt that for trotters you needed a "smart" driver, at least it took a "smart" driver to drive one, more than a pacer. Like with any horse, the driver needed horsepower between the shafts and he had to put the horse in a position to win. You needed a driver who had to have finesse, soft, but firm hands, who could find that perfect spot where the horse could maximize their speed, but of course not break.
Back in the day, while Campbell, O'Donnell, Jackie Mo, Ron Pierce, Mike Lachance, and others were very successful, Sonny Patterson Jr. was a top-notch driver for trotters. I always thought Cat Manzi had great hands too. Sonny's career got revitalized and he reinvented himself as a catch driver and got very popular after Ronnie Gurfein started using him for Lindy/Crown and he had Lou Guida in the barn as well. Yes, north of the border, Trevor Ritchie had amazing hands, great finesse, and a great feel for trotters. So did Steve Condren although he never became known as a specialist. Of all the great drivers though, none were better than Berndt Lindstedt. Nobody knows how great this guy was because he wasn't a catch-driver. He was truly great. Great skills, great hands, finesse, etc. He had it all.
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There used to be trotting guys and pacing guys…..I find now there are a lot of guys that can go either way…..that’s my kind of trainer.
ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
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lost aof drivers now a days go both ways
I know a few trainers that go both ways also. Double gaited, as London would say.
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Bernt Linstedt, Jan Johnson too. Any time there is talk of trotters, Carl Allen should be mentioned.
Note the great # of trotters on hopples nowadays, which he invented. tmbz1
Although Carl raced all of his trotter later in his career with trotting hopples he didn't invent them or was the first to start using them In the 90s. An Australian by the name of Ross Shand was the one that Carl seen using them and adapted them to his stable after seeing them being used.
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I think hobbles in general have been around a very, very long time. As it relates to the standardbred, I have no idea where Carl Allen first saw them, but he certainly used them and had a strong opinion about them, LOL. Based upon my history lessons in the sport, I always thought here in the US the early trotting hobbles were invented by John Browning, somewhere around the mid-1800's. He was from Indiana, and they became known as "Indiana Pants" or "Indiana Tanglers" only because some horses couldn't get used to them, got tangled up and fell down. They became controversial, even back in those days, LOL.
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I stand corrected. Just remember at the time being something that I or people around me had never seen. CR Kay Suzie.
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Although Carl raced all of his trotter later in his career with trotting hopples he didn't invent them or was the first to start using them In the 90s. An Australian by the name of Ross Shand was the one that Carl seen using them and adapted them to his stable after seeing them being used.
It was actually Ross’s father Ken Shand.
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I stand corrected. Just remember at the time being something that I or people around me had never seen. CR Kay Suzie.
I am not sure, but that's what I remember. I believe Skip Lewis said it was Stanley Dancer who told the story.
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I agree that today there is probably much less separation between the two; however, back in the 70's and early 80's if I had a trotter racing at either Yonkers or Roosevelt I would always try and get John Patterson Jr as first choice and Benny Webster as #2. I owned ONLY trotters for 30 years (with one exception for a pacer I leased) and it was MY OPINION (and shared by several others involved with mostly trotters, including Ron Gurfein) that there were 4 or 5 drivers whose hands seemed to work better with trotters than many of the other drivers. Over the years the drivers whom my trotters had the most success with were Benny Webster, John Campbell, Walter Case, John Patterson Jr., Mike Gagliardi and Ron Waples. These days Yannick seems to have a great feel for the trotters he drives.
Case was successful with trotters often in the 90's at YR because when they went off stride he went to the outside and let them gallop full speed until they got their trot back, so he didn't lose much ground, my friend Jeff put me wise to this, I think he posts on here.
One example I can remember is High Test Quality who broke on the first turn but went to the outside on the backstretch, stayed with the field, and got his trot back and by the final turn he was within striking distance and went on to win, he wasn't the favorite in the race.
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I don't think there has every been anyone that make a trotter look so fluid as Åke Svanstedt. Every single one of his that race look so natural.
He can hang one up. Never seen so many horses with open bridles, no overchecks and no boots. I know he is buying at an elite level (or at least his owners are) but his horses are beautifully gaited and look like a million bucks all the time.
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Rookie question - are different driving/handling skills required for drivers racing trotters and pacers? It would seem to me there may be different skills required when driving the two different gaits.
Since the question related to driving skills, Ake should not be in the conversation. For as great as his development/rigging/training skills are, he does not drive well at all and it is MY OPINION that each and every one of his horses would have done even better with others doing the teaming, not to mention a Hambo that he puked up with Six Pack.
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I had a lot of success with Jeff Gregory on trotters.
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Jeff is very good with a trotter. Great hands . Pretty much just drives his own now.
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I always, always, always liked Jeff. Very good hands, excellent finesse, and a soft touch when needed, and, he's truly one of the good guys in our sport.
Many years ago Linda Toscano started using him a bit, mostly in the NYSS -- but years later, he won the Breeders Crown with Chapter Seven for Linda! He also won a Hambo Oaks! After he had that accident and suffered a massive broken elbow, he really had to reinvent himself a bit. He went from being a catch-driver and one of the leading drivers at Yonkers Raceway, to building a bigger, quality stable.
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I don’t remember him breaking an elbow but know he shattered a hip. He now has about 15 at Spring Garden Ranch. All 2 and 3 year olds.
A real gentleman as is his father..
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That too. He had a massive break. His elbow was shattered. The surgery was major and required follow up surgery to remove hardware and wires. He had a series of a injuries with that major one that caused him to shift from being a catch-driver to a trainer. A really good guy! Like I said, I always liked him.
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And here I thought all of Horseplop hated The USTA and all it's directors?