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General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: LimeTime on January 15, 2024, 10:59:11 AM
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Many T-bred tracks remain popular while harness tracks disappear. Even if a casino shows up- horse racing is a sport and a different experience. There has to be other reasons why a state like Michigan had about 8 tracks and is soon be zero. I think an aspect of the situation is a lack of institutional control over quality control that slowly eroded public confidence. People are not stupid- when the 3/5 shot does not pull out flys like a bullet to get 3rd or 4th and the gimmicks come in short it breaks peoples spirit. The public pays for judges and stewards to protect racing instead they protect the racers. This effects harness racing more because a harness horse can race 50 times a year where the T-bred has to try more due to limited outs-so its a built in "problem" with harness racing.
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Same reason the Kentucky Derby despite all it's scandals remains more popular than the Hambletonian. It's a mainstream sport. Harness racing has grown from it's grassroots beginnings. You don't see t-breds racing aroung county fair tracks.
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Thoroughbred Organizations have accepted HISA, as a means to cleaning up the sport. TB's are also welcoming of bridging a gap with the general populations, and rectifying the public persona of its segment of the sport. Harness racing, aaaaaa little bit defunct in these areas.
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I blame Faraldough, he’s ruined buggy racing for at least 50 years
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Curt Gowdy and Chris Shankle had this runners on one of the 3 Television stations that everyone had in their homes.The first thing that people who have been to the races a time or two say is"I will never go again because you can see the drivers holding the horses back". Does anyone have an idea to change PUBLIC PERCEPTION????
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The first thing that people who have been to the races a time or two say is"I will never go again because you can see the drivers holding the horses back". Does anyone have an idea to change PUBLIC PERCEPTION????
I had a business partner 30 years ago in a different arena and he could not understand the concept of rating and why drivers do that. Nothing I could do to make him understand the strategy. People think a horse race should be all out all the time and there is no way to change that.
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the perception of the two breds are light years apart
we know the problem with harness racing
and i am not suggesting tbreds dont have their issues behind the scenes with trainers etc
but watch the races, the tbreds always look like they are flying and they tend to be more in a pack at the finish, harness usually pass each other rather quickly , you will see some tbreds race as a team or a threesome for half the stretch right to the wire
also because there is no bike it never looks like tbreds are in a box they cant get through( although not true)
tbreds race much less so seems they need to try every race to make money
compare the races , to a casual fan they look nothing alike and everyone would say they prefer tbreds
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I would add "breaking" to the list... over the years I have taken many people to the harness track for their first time... the ones that make their first be on a horse that breaks usually never make another one.
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It's a great question and there are innumerable answers. The answers and the solutions come from a variety of aspects of the sport and the industry. Yes, the t-bred game can still produce monster days and handles. 50 to 75k people and 50 million plus handles. But in both games on track handle and attendance are down and will continue to go down. It's the new norm. On track handle can no longer be the goal. It has to be all in handle. But the monster and handles days can still be a part of a stable, healthy, successful business, and not be an anomaly or exception.
The future of sport and industry is going to be entertainment venues, and yes, will include other forms of gambling. If a casino company owns it, they will want out of the racing business. They will lobby for decoupling. Unless it's a Gulfstream, and unfortunately there's a casino not too far from them. But at the Meadowlands, yes, give Gural a casino! My opinion is he will not only not seek decoupling, but he will continue to support the racing side of the facility. Unlike Yonkers. Good thread.
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I would add "breaking" to the list... over the years I have taken many people to the harness track for their first time... the ones that make their first be on a horse that breaks usually never make another one.
Yea, Newbies are horrified when they see their selection break stride in front of the grandstand- theres a collective gasp, when in reality you often can get better prices on trot races because they do break more.
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It's a great question and there are innumerable answers. The answers and the solutions come from a variety of aspects of the sport and the industry. Yes, the t-bred game can still produce monster days and handles. 50 to 75k people and 50 million plus handles. But in both games on track handle and attendance are down and will continue to go down. It's the new norm. On track handle can no longer be the goal. It has to be all in handle. But the monster and handles days can still be a part of a stable, healthy, successful business, and not be an anomaly or exception.
The future of sport and industry is going to be entertainment venues, and yes, will include other forms of gambling. If a casino company owns it, they will want out of the racing business. They will lobby for decoupling. Unless it's a Gulfstream, and unfortunately there's a casino not too far from them. But at the Meadowlands, yes, give Gural a casino! My opinion is he will not only not seek decoupling, but he will continue to support the racing side of the facility. Unlike Yonkers. Good thread.
Often the horse track wont exist without the racino but the horse racing then becomes a neglected sideline business where anything goes.
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Harness remains the same stale mile of racing while short track racing is get to the lead and shut it down. Then race the last quarter of a mile. The harness industry only promotes fast miles and new records. It's the only thing they can hang onto while the future isn't bright. The handle on weekend cards when the big M is racing has that same 9-10M churn between all the tracks. The big M can do a 13 race handle of 3m give or take any side of that number. A track like Tampa Downs a B/C track with 8 to 9 races will out handle the number 1 harness track. Thoroughbreds still have the punters that can add to the horsemans purse account with gaming dollars that keeps some tracks alive while the added gaming casinos make the purse account thrive. That's just the short answer.
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Often the horse track wont exist without the racino but the horse racing then becomes a neglected sideline business where anything goes.
That's my point. And it won't happen with "horsemen" like Gural. It will happen with a casino company that views racing as the necessary evil until they can decouple. We will see less race days and less racetracks. Field size might be stagnant, but eventually will increase with consolidation. I for one want to see Gural get a casino, and I don't want to see an Indian tribe-based company get a nearby competing casino with a lower tax rate and tax concessions. I also want to see other alternative forms of revenue for the remaining, surviving premier tracks that we will see. The sport and the industry needs a new model.
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the perception of the two breds are light years apart
we know the problem with harness racing
and i am not suggesting tbreds dont have their issues behind the scenes with trainers etc
but watch the races, the tbreds always look like they are flying and they tend to be more in a pack at the finish, harness usually pass each other rather quickly , you will see some tbreds race as a team or a threesome for half the stretch right to the wire
also because there is no bike it never looks like tbreds are in a box they cant get through( although not true)
tbreds race much less so seems they need to try every race to make money
compare the races , to a casual fan they look nothing alike and everyone would say they prefer tbreds
There are many people who prefer harness racing. In our opinion the harness races have more exciting finishes. I've seen far more races with 5-6-7 horses wide at the finish in a harness races than a tb race where they look like they're staggering to the wire. The throwaway breds also have a huge injury issue...which beget the HISA bullshit. Non-horse racing people telling horsemen how to train a horse. I would agree the throwaway breds are far more entertaining to watch in the starting gate as opposed to the standardbreds quietly lining up behind the starting gate. I give those little people credit for risking their lives on those lunatics. Harness racing is exciting and doing just fine.
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Yea, Newbies are horrified when they see their selection break stride in front of the grandstand- theres a collective gasp, when in reality you often can get better prices on trot races because they do break more.
Newbies ?
Collective Gasp ?
What track are you at ? ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
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T-breds have always had a popularity and handle ratio of about 10.1 over harness. Don't kid yourself, T=breds are experiencing the same downturn in both categories , just as harness. Yes, there are the boutique meets and facilities, Saratoga, Keenland and De mar. But they have lost small venues and are losing more. Bay Meadows will close after this meet.
Their foal population is way down, too. Let's face it, the sport of horse racing is literally dying off. The fan base ages and the young ones are not the least bit interested.
I will be long gone before the game can turn the trend if at all.
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T-breds have always had a popularity and handle ratio of about 10.1 over harness. Don't kid yourself, T=breds are experiencing the same downturn in both categories , just as harness. Yes, there are the boutique meets and facilities, Saratoga, Keenland and De mar. But they have lost small venues and are losing more. Bay Meadows will close after this meet.
Their foal population is way down, too. Let's face it, the sport of horse racing is literally dying off. The fan base ages and the young ones are not the least bit interested.
I will be long gone before the game can turn the trend if at all.
BEST POSt on this subject yet. Too many other gambling options are legally available.InEurop e they have been racing small meets for years. Nothing is forever. US racing hasn't changed its business to stay competitive.
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T-breds have always had a popularity and handle ratio of about 10.1 over harness. Don't kid yourself, T=breds are experiencing the same downturn in both categories , just as harness. Yes, there are the boutique meets and facilities, Saratoga, Keenland and De mar. But they have lost small venues and are losing more. Bay Meadows will close after this meet.
Their foal population is way down, too. Let's face it, the sport of horse racing is literally dying off. The fan base ages and the young ones are not the least bit interested.
I will be long gone before the game can turn the trend if at all.
Good post, but i will argue with the first sentence. It has been a long time ago, but harness racing was the number one sport in the United States and baseball a distant second according to several accounts i've read up until about the 1920's or so. Remember, families all got around by driving horses and we're not talking about t-breds, lol. Harness racing was very popular and the match races beget the county fairs. When you weren't driving your horse you were probably using it to plows your fields...and there again they certainly didn't use t-breds for that. The invention of automobiles changed all of that eventually and as the older population who grew up with horses has died off, racing isn't near as attractive to the younger generations who grew up in front of a tv.
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I do believe that in the future we will see some thoroughbred tracks, transition to harness tracks, if they must have horse racing, in order to have the casino. It is much cheaper to put on a standardbred meet then it is a thoroughbred meet.
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Quarter Horse racing is less expensive to stage than T-breds and Standard.
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Bay Meadows has been gone for a long time liked racing there in the late 70's.
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Quarter Horse racing is less expensive to stage than T-breds and Standard.
Remember when they had a quarter horse meet at the Red Mile back in the early 2000's
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Lotteries and casinos are a big factor to the 40 year decline in harness racing. More night time gambling options.
Unfortunately, harness racing is following jai-alai to its grave.
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Jai Alai is already six feet under. The few remaining frontons are generally near empty and their betting handles are non-existent. What a difference from I went to college in Miami where on a Saturday night at Miami Jai Alai the place was sold out and the excitement approached a Super Bowl.
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Remember when they had a quarter horse meet at the Red Mile back in the early 2000's
They had a 1/4 horse meet there last spring