HORSEPLOP.COM
General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: JIDGE on October 10, 2023, 08:33:40 AM
-
Any predictions on the hammer price? Or the reserve? 2nd. to Cannibal two days ago. Breeders Crown awaits.
-
I've never seen this horse race,nor do I know his breeding however my dart in the dark is 160k!
-
Yeah around $140 Didnt we see him in the NA Cup and or the Meadlnds Pace.. Durable looking horse, definitely has speed and can close/take air. Seems like he will go on to be a high class older horse if sound and given the chance.
-
auction ends on Friday --- Buy and you're in the Breeders Crown.
In the comments, it said new owner has the option for Tony Alagna train up to Breeders Crown.
Current Bid: $156,000
-
Great info, ty
-
I say he'll go for 300K or more.
-
won't sell because they will have a reserve so high that no one will pay.
-
whats reserve? he can go for almost 400... rocky road hanove rsold back when 2 yrs ago for 450 500.. private
-
Current Bid $160,000
-
They are talking stallion prospect in the notes so I would guess they want 750K?
-
just a ploy to make him look like a more attractive stallion
aka Lordy Lordy
-
They are talking stallion prospect in the notes so I would guess they want 750K?
Unless he steps up bigtime the scallion prospect is a stretch -- if it were a reality he wouldn't be up for grabs.
-
Unless he steps up bigtime the scallion prospect is a stretch -- if it were a reality he wouldn't be up for grabs.
First off ongait is a big scam. Crooked bs all day every day. Second he would be a great stallion in Illinois. Third he’ll never sell period just as someone else said the reserve will be set too high.
-
First off ongait is a big scam. Crooked bs all day every day. Second he would be a great stallion in Illinois. Third he’ll never sell period just as someone else said the reserve will be set too high.
Welcome back 1st Avenue
-
First off ongait is a big scam. Crooked bs all day every day. Second he would be a great stallion in Illinois. Third he’ll never sell period just as someone else said the reserve will be set too high.
How is it a crooked scam?
-
How is it a crooked scam?
Is Dana Parham involved? I know 1st Avenue didn’t like him.
-
How is it a crooked scam?
Simple all the owners know what the bids are and who's bidding. They also know the max bids and where they can run people too in the auction. It's all rigged.
-
$450-$500k
Has the breeding and the credentials for state breeding program. Dam has 5, with everyone having gone in 151:3 or better. El Rey has a full sister with 600k+ (nice black type wins) and around 1:50 mark and dam has another with Vintage Master who was a pretty decent sort. There is a 2yo Capt. who has already shown in 1:51.
With Confederate retiring, he may be in the top 3 or 4 4yo next year if he continues racing. He did race on Lasix while at ML, but certainly showed he is fine for a while without it, since all of his LX was dry.
Someone like Weaver/Bruscemi or A. Harris could ante this up. Weaver moved Southwind Frank to Delaware (Winbak), and may be looking for a pacing sire for another state.
-
Simple all the owners know what the bids are and who's bidding. They also know the max bids and where they can run people too in the auction. It's all rigged.
That must me something new. Last horse I bought I never bid till 1 minute before end of sale. 2 more bids and horse was mine.
-
Simple all the owners know what the bids are and who's bidding. They also know the max bids and where they can run people too in the auction. It's all rigged.
What?! Everyone knows what the bids are. And unless the owners are mind readers they have no idea what a buyer's max bid is. If you're going to trash the site come up with something credible.
-
Current Bid $170,000
auction ends Friday at noon
-
I’m thinking 350-400k. Bidding doesn’t usually get hot till last hour. Tony sells most of his 3yr olds and some of the broke down 2yr olds around Lexington so he can put the owners on new horses.
-
I’m thinking 350-400k. Bidding doesn’t usually get hot till last hour. Tony sells most of his 3yr olds and some of the broke down 2yr olds around Lexington so he can put the owners on new horses.
True. I've found sometimes the bid one hour out triples by sale's end.
-
THE LAST 2 MINUTES IS WHEN ALL THE ACTION IS. AND WHEN SOMEONE BIDS DURING THIS TIME FRAME. IT RESETS TO A MINUTE AND THIRTY. THIS CAN GO ON FOR A WHILE.
-
What?! Everyone knows what the bids are. And unless the owners are mind readers they have no idea what a buyer's max bid is. If you're going to trash the site come up with something credible.
If you put in say 100k bid on a horse but the current bid is 60K it will mark you at 61K. Now someone can see behind the scenes you have 100K bid as a max. They can easily run there bids to 99K making your 100K bid live.
-
All the online auction houses and sports memorabilia have been caught doing this in recent yrs. Don't believe me? Google that shit!
-
Simple all the owners know what the bids are and who's bidding. They also know the max bids and where they can run people too in the auction. It's all rigged.
By owners, are you referring to the owners of ongait or the owners of the horse?
And, if what you say is true, why are there so many buy backs?
Carmine A buys some of his back.
-
If you put in say 100k bid on a horse but the current bid is 60K it will mark you at 61K. Now someone can see behind the scenes you have 100K bid as a max. They can easily run there bids to 99K making your 100K bid live.
Got it, but ongait resets after each high bid, giving the next bidder time to bid -- like a live (in person) auction. There's no need for a max. Unlike an ebay which ends at a specific time and you enter a max.
-
i have bought and sold on the ongait platform , no issues
the only conflict i could see is if the owner of the site ( i believe it is dana/maurice) were interested in the horse they can see the bids and who they belong to
i do like the preferred site where you can at least see the ongoing live bids even though you dont know who the actual bidders are
-
i have bought and sold on the ongait platform , no issues
the only conflict i could see is if the owner of the site ( i believe it is dana/maurice) were interested in the horse they can see the bids and who they belong to
i do like the preferred site where you can at least see the ongoing live bids even though you dont know who the actual bidders are
It’s Eric and Maurice
-
If you put in say 100k bid on a horse but the current bid is 60K it will mark you at 61K. Now someone can see behind the scenes you have 100K bid as a max. They can easily run there bids to 99K making your 100K bid live.
That’s not how it works at all. There isn’t even a max bid feature like on some regular auction sites.
-
ok
thank you
-
Current Bid $ 175,000
Auction closes at Noon Friday --- be interesting in the last 20 minutes potential bids he could get.
-
i predict RESERVE NOT MET
-
i predict RESERVE NOT MET
Not sure what reserve is
Current Bid $205,000
-
Not sure what reserve is
Current Bid $205,000
Reserve is the minimum price the owner will take for the horse. Meaning if someone meets the reserve price or exceeds it, the horse is sold to the new owner for the winning bid. If no one meets the reserve price the owner retains the horse.
-
If it was on the up n up they would show you who is bidding by name. When your at a live auction you can see who your bidding against most of the time. If your at a live auction and ask to know who your bidding against and the auctioneer can't show you your likely bidding against the consignor. This is why the major auction houses have to put an identifier by the bidder now so there are public records of bids. eBay does the same thing.
-
You have no idea who you're bidding against at a live horse auction (unless they're sitting next to you) and there's absolutely no way you can ask.
-
If it was on the up n up they would show you who is bidding by name. When your at a live auction you can see who your bidding against most of the time. If your at a live auction and ask to know who your bidding against and the auctioneer can't show you your likely bidding against the consignor. This is why the major auction houses have to put an identifier by the bidder now so there are public records of bids. eBay does the same thing.
That rarely ever happens at a live auction. You’d have to be standing next to the spotter to see who he is looking at.
-
That rarely ever happens at a live auction. You’d have to be standing next to the spotter to see who he is looking at.
You would still never know I was bidding. Unless you just happen to catch the first bid.
-
Current Bid:
$225,000
-
How many days left?
-
I wonder how much commission they charge on a horse like this ? I bet it is a set fee. It stirs up interest in the site.
-
I wonder how much commission they charge on a horse like this ? I bet it is a set fee. It stirs up interest in the site.
Normally, it’s $150 +4%, I believe.
-
Normally, it’s $150 +4%, I believe.
That whole hidden reserve is such bullshit. Just put up the minimum you will take for the horse and that is where the auction starts. Why go through all the bullshit and then you end up being the highest bidder but it wasn't high enough so you don't get the horse. A complete waste of time.
-
That whole hidden reserve is such bullshit. Just put up the minimum you will take for the horse and that is where the auction starts. Why go through all the bullshit and then you end up being the highest bidder but it wasn't high enough so you don't get the horse. A complete waste of time.
Totally agree. I was interested in a mare last month -- was told no reserve, but something told me he was full of shit -- yep, they ended up buying her back. So glad I didn't make the calls and put the research in.
-
Normally, it’s $150 +4%, I believe.
That's what I was told.
-
Totally agree. I was interested in a mare last month -- was told no reserve, but something told me he was full of shit -- yep, they ended up buying her back. So glad I didn't make the calls and put the research in.
Correct. I've lost out on 3 horses where I was high bidder but didn't exceed the hidden reserve. It's a joke.
-
I have been both the bidder/buyer and/or the seller/consignor more times then I want to think about.
I can argue both ways about reserve bids.
What I do know is that in a private sale or an auction, I go in with a set price. I don't care where the other bids come from. If there is a reserve bid, that is fine with me.
I would rather there be a reserve bid, then to have the consignor say "Sell the worthless POS for whatever".
If the reserve bid is over my set price, then so be it. I got out bid.
-
I was told that some horses don't even make it to the listing phase before a sale is agreed upon! The Ole "I got a guy" convo takes place!
-
I have been both the bidder/buyer and/or the seller/consignor more times then I want to think about.
I can argue both ways about reserve bids.
What I do know is that in a private sale or an auction, I go in with a set price. I don't care where the other bids come from. If there is a reserve bid, that is fine with me.
I would rather there be a reserve bid, then to have the consignor say "Sell the worthless POS for whatever".
If the reserve bid is over my set price, then so be it. I got out bid.
I think you missed the point. Why should I spend the time researching a horse, maybe traveling to inspect the horse, calling contacts that may know something about the horse when my maximum bankroll will not be enough to exceed this mysterious reserve. Why does it have to be a secret?
-
Correct. I've lost out on 3 horses where I was high bidder but didn't exceed the hidden reserve. It's a joke.
It is late and sometimes I just like to be a jerk.
Therefore
You were not the high bidder.
You were the under bidder.
The high bidder was the reserve bidder that went home with the horse.
I know I am a critical old horse trainer.
-
Why does it have to be a secret?
Simple
To get you/us started to bid in hopes you/us go beyond our set limit.
Sometimes it works sometimes not.
-
Current Bid $230,000
closes in less than 24 hours.
-
Please correct me if I am wrong but to those why think this horse is a stallion prospect please tell me which sons of Captaintreacherou s have been a successful stud
-
a bit early to try to make a decision on that
i believe the only son of his with any raced are the 2 year olds from captain crunch in 2023
i believe captain midnight has yearlings for sale this fall standing in Indiana
i dont know of any sons of captaintreacherou s
-
That must me something new. Last horse I bought I never bid till 1 minute before end of sale. 2 more bids and horse was mine.
HEY DANA. HOW YOU BEEN?
-
Horse will bring 275 -300
-
seriously???
he is at $250 and the bidding doesn't really start until friday morning
-
seriously???
he is at $250 and the bidding doesn't really start until friday morning
I know, but do you really think he'll bring over 400K?
-
I know, but do you really think he'll bring over 400K?
YES...$450-$600 range is my estimate. As an "aged" FFA pacer (with Confederate retired) he will be in the top 6 or 7. This excludes any $$ assigned to possible state stallion duty. If the horse is sound and has no "hidden" glitch.. then the earnings of horses and geldings such as Allywag, Abuckett, Backstreet, This is the Plan, Rockin Ron etc. would make this work out over time just on the racetrack.
-
Current bid $ 300,000 -- One hour left
-
Now the fun begins. Which one of the big players has the largest ego
-
525000 to Andrew Harris. For Pollock?
-
525000 to Andrew Harris. For Pollock?
In 5 years Pollock will be out of the game.
-
In 5 years Pollock will be out of the game.
I knew Harris was bidding on him but the word was he wasn't going over 400K. Oh well, 525K is a lot of cheddar for one horse. I think I would rather buy 5 for 100K each.
-
I knew Harris was bidding on him but the word was he wasn't going over 400K. Oh well, 525K is a lot of cheddar for one horse. I think I would rather buy 5 for 100K each.
Putting all your eggs in one basket is not a good business plan for any type of investment! You hit the nail on the head Mike! tmbz1
-
That ain’t all his eggs. He got a taste of playing at the top level with Seven Colors. And he has plenty of $$$. His kids might be a little disappointed that he is spending their inheritance but he is having a blast
-
Putting all your eggs in one basket is not a good business plan for any type of investment! You hit the nail on the head Mike! tmbz1
Harris also had Abuckabett Hanover..he's no slouch
-
perhaps but one really good one is a lot better investment monetarily than 5 ok ones
those bills add up fast
-
Andrew Harris is not in the top 50 in wins in USA and is #44 in earnings. Not exactly setting the world on fire.
-
perhaps but one really good one is a lot better investment monetarily than 5 ok ones
those bills add up fast
So you're saying 100k will only purchase an OK horse?
-
Andrew Harris is not in the top 50 in wins in USA and is #44 in earnings. Not exactly setting the world on fire.
When you take into consideration that he has well bred stock along with the latest technology in therapeutics,the numbers are not as impressive as one would expect. The R.O.I. is the only number that matters. As long as the people who finance his business are satisfied, the number of wins is irrelevant!
-
So you're saying 100k will only purchase an OK horse?
How many legitimate stake horses have you seen sell for $100k last 5 years??
-
How many legitimate stake horses have you seen sell for $100k last 5 years??
Show me where I posted the words stake horse douchebag?
-
When you take into consideration that he has well bred stock along with the latest technology in therapeutics,the numbers are not as impressive as one would expect. The R.O.I. is the only number that matters. As long as the people who finance his business are satisfied, the number of wins is irrelevant!
His barn has earned 1.4 million this year and he just spent 525K on 1 fucking horse. His ROI just took a major hit jerkoff.
-
Its a LOT of money no matter how you look at it !!
While the good side is....he is a well bred stallion and will have some residual value "in case"
of a disaster, it would be hard to see a good return on investment unless he performs very
well as a 4 year old and recoups lots of that purchase price.
The fact that as a 3 year old he only has 15 starts and was only in the top 3 about 50% of those starts
does make me question the purchase a little.
Good luck to all. We need some excitement in the industry.
-
Show me where I posted the words stake horse douchebag?
If they can’t play in the stakes at 3 then they are an ok horse not a good one
-
If they can’t play in the stakes at 3 then they are an ok horse not a good one
You're a moron.
-
When you take into consideration that he has well bred stock along with the latest technology in therapeutics,the numbers are not as impressive as one would expect. The R.O.I. is the only number that matters. As long as the people who finance his business are satisfied, the number of wins is irrelevant!
Plus Cassie and her Navarro help
-
If they can’t play in the stakes at 3 then they are an ok horse not a good one
Huh? Allard, Banca, Surick, Burke, Pena, Oakes, & many others took regular horses & turned them into stakes performers.
Ambro Proposal, Foiled Again, & Homicide Hunter come to mind.
-
gee, wonder how some of those fine upstanding individuals did that ??
-
You're a moron.
What do you consider a good horse vs ok horse?
-
What do you consider a good horse vs ok horse?
I responded to your asinine comment that if they aren't a stake horse at 3, they aren't a good horse. Are you telling me that a horse can't develop into a great horse at 4,5 even 6 years old. Please tell me you had just finished smoking a couple of rocks and were just too fucked up to make any sense.
-
I responded to your asinine comment that if they aren't a stake horse at 3, they aren't a good horse. Are you telling me that a horse can't develop into a great horse at 4,5 even 6 years old. Please tell me you had just finished smoking a couple of rocks and were just too fucked up to make any sense.
They can but most that are spending a couple hundred thousand are not hoping to get lucky. They are buying performance
-
They can but most that are spending a couple hundred thousand are not hoping to get lucky. They are buying performance
You're just an idiot. There are great racehorses being purchased for much less than 200K. I think they paid 70K for Foiled Again. How did he do? What a fucking jerkoff you are.
-
You're just an idiot. There are great racehorses being purchased for much less than 200K. I think they paid 70K for Foiled Again. How did he do? What a fucking jerkoff you are.
Guess that’s why you are stuck at Monticello. Foiled again was 12-13 years ago. He would of sold for 120 these days
-
Funny how people that can’t use facts to support their theory immediately resort to name calling
-
so much hatred in this thread.
-
Funny how people that can’t use facts to support their theory immediately resort to name calling
Sure do.. I have had a few arrows shot my way and I never name call
-
Sure do.. I have had a few arrows shot my way and I never name call
That’s why me may not always agree but I still respect you.
-
Guess that’s why you are stuck at Monticello. Foiled again was 12-13 years ago. He would of sold for 120 these days
I haven't set foot at Monticello in 25 years dick breath. You just proved my point ass wipe. You said 200K, now you're saying 120K.
-
Bulldog Hanover was okay as a three year old. He became a beast at four.
-
That’s why me may not always agree but I still respect you.
Why don't you two get a room
-
ngc3
-
That’s why me may not always agree but I still respect you.
TY Here too. i don't recall any major disagreements. I see Mike C is on the iron tonight
-
Bulldog Hanover was okay as a three year old. He became a beast at four.
Yep and Seelster paid $800k for him at end of 3yr old year
-
Yep and Seelster paid $800k for him at end of 3yr old year
I guarantee you Stan, if that is you real name, that if I showed up at Yonkers with 100K cash, I could buy me a horse that will be racing every week for 30K or more and if successtul, will make 200K-300K first year. Hell, there are 30k claimers there that have made 150K. Your theory is that of a retard.
-
I guarantee you Stan, if that is you real name, that if I showed up at Yonkers with 100K cash, I could buy me a horse that will be racing every week for 30K or more and if successtul, will make 200K-300K first year. Hell, there are 30k claimers there that have made 150K. Your theory is that of a retard.
Good luck with that. I’m guessing you think all the owners at Yonkers are idiots. You can claim a solid earner but you can’t buy a N/W of 15k out of there for $100k these days. They all know they can milk out 150+
-
Good luck with that. I’m guessing you think all the owners at Yonkers are idiots. You can claim a solid earner but you can’t buy a N/W of 15k out of there for $100k these days. They all know they can milk out 150+
Stay in Canada. You would get swallowed up in the states.
-
$450-$500k
Has the breeding and the credentials for state breeding program. Dam has 5, with everyone having gone in 151:3 or better. El Rey has a full sister with 600k+ (nice black type wins) and around 1:50 mark and dam has another with Vintage Master who was a pretty decent sort. There is a 2yo Capt. who has already shown in 1:51.
With Confederate retiring, he may be in the top 3 or 4 4yo next year if he continues racing. He did race on Lasix while at ML, but certainly showed he is fine for a while without it, since all of his LX was dry.
Someone like Weaver/Bruscemi or A. Harris could ante this up. Weaver moved Southwind Frank to Delaware (Winbak), and may be looking for a pacing sire for another state.
How about getting the price and the buyer?? Do I win a free breeding (with one of the Ottens maybe??)... and it won't be with frozen semen. ;D
-
nice call
-
What was the final price ? Who bought it
-
Jeezz, Yonk. You are getting quite lazy. $525K Andy Harris and company.
-
PL Ozzie went from a 30k claimer,strung a handful of wins and then sold for 67k at Ongait prior to the two races for over a 100k in purse money! I'm sure that there was alot going on behind the scenes during the public offering, but it did happen like that. Anyone with an eye for selecting stock that is underperming and the ability to get the best out of a horse,will make money 9/10 times!
-
What was the final price ? Who bought it
https://ongait.com/Listings/View/23766
-
Jeezz, Yonk. You are getting quite lazy. $525K Andy Harris and company.
Harris ran into an ATM
-
I remember a Pena guy telling everyone how he studied horses, Burke guy is the same, Surick became a genius, & there are probably many more. Those mentioned were all on social media. There are a host of others who are very confident of their ability. They choose not to brag.
The common denominator is the juicing trainer. Pena, Allard, Oakes, Burke, Bongiorno, Alexander, Banca, Chansky, & many others would make most look good. It is a simple formula. Buy a decent horse from a smaller stable & give it the magic. In most cases that horse becomes very good & sometimes great.
-
Will we see a test run prior to the Crown for the new purchase???
-
Will we see a test run prior to the Crown for the new purchase???
No time, draw is Wednesday for eliminations.
-
El Rey has a profile like Whichwaytothebeac h a step below the best. Coleman-Harris are better connected to the go gas that Toscani obviously doesn't have
-
Jeezz, Yonk. You are getting quite lazy. $525K Andy Harris and company.
Lol, I'm getting there
-
well toscani didnt train el rey
-
well toscani didnt train el rey
I thought Alagna trained El Rey
-
correct
-
No time, draw is Wednesday for eliminations.
I thank you Sir!
-
well toscani didnt train el rey
No he bought Whichwaytothebeac h from Pelling for around 400k the horse had a profile like El Rey that was the comparison
-
El Rey
Coming up at Osk Grove racing in $100k final.
-
El Rey
Coming up at Osk Grove racing in $100k final.
Came up empty.
-
Let's see.. Combustion sold for $200,000 and El Rey sold for ????. Gheez, the camera work on that card was horrible. They don't have a clue about proper exposure and then they switch back and forth between a more classic perspective and a "head on". This breaks up the continuity of the race for people tracking horses. Just terrible (rant over.)
Getting back to the race, in all fairness to El Rey, Miller mis-timed the horse/gate and bumped his nose before the start and it took the horse 1/8 mile to settle into his gait.
-
Came up empty.
he may have been mty but he was also locked up for life--- Miller didn't move a muscle on him down the lane looking for anywhere to go...
Ive seen a lot of horses that looked loaded that may not have anything -- but he never had a chance to show that.
-
he may have been mty but he was also locked up for life--- Miller didn't move a muscle on him down the lane looking for anywhere to go...
Ive seen a lot of horses that looked loaded that may not have anything -- but he never had a chance to show that.
He will be better next time and maybe even at a decent price.
-
yep --- the line on paper looks terrible, but there may be an excuse for the trip to get the better odds tmbz1
-
1. yes they sold for vastly different amounts but also at different times, el rey still had 3 yr old races left , combustion sold after most were done
2. i thought he was about the fourth best horse looking at the program , trip might not have worked out the best but we will see when they all show up for the graduate series