HORSEPLOP.COM
General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: Jctoronto on July 19, 2020, 08:55:30 AM
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and the 'instructions' are to end up third,
how do you and 8 other drivers 'ensure'
that third place finish...so we all get 'paid'.
From strictly a fan's perspective..it always looks like there is so much going on. Noses, heads, necks..so delicate the process...and while a driver might be fading the last 100 feet, there appears to be lots of 'looking around' on his part to 'ensure' his final position.
Dont get me wrong...im not here to indict anyone..im actually here to celebrate the 'art of the harness race finish'. And it takes years to ensure more 'expected' results than not.
In the example, I picked finishing third...hell I could have picked finishing 'fifth' in a 10 horse hi5.....that sounds even tougher with horses going both forward and backwards around you.
A 20 yr old driver..a 45 yr old driver, a 65 yr old driver and three 1100 lb. animals all in same 4th place photo bottom of a super. It takes a 'learned' gift to finish precisely where one must.
Yes..I believe most of what we see is pre-planned...not all but lots...and again, like most, Idon't have problem with it.
Heck, its important for health of the driver and equine stars to stay out wheel hookups, accidents and injuries...and for the longevity of the game.
When i see guys talk before a race down the back...as camera picks em up, I have to assume its guys 'ensuring' how the start will go and 'dont forget'..and a $50 fine be damned...again, im ok with it.
Again, I consider this a great art form...im a student of the game..going on 45 years....and to tell you truth, the cheaper the stock the more skilled art it requires..to get the result just right. The bread and butter races that pay most horsemen's bills...you just CANT screw up these finishes.
Stay healthy..stay hydrated..and keep on entertaining us...we'd love to win more betting you guys..and we do every once in awhile, but mostly, we need the rush..the show...for most of us reading this..weve spent a great part of our lives fascinated 'how this game works'.
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8 times out of 10, They wound up running over their money!
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can i get a summary?
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To the fan. Try it once. Most people will s&@t there pants. Sitting behind a 1100 lbs horse You are total clueless if you think some driver going to finish where they want. You have no clue what’s going to happen these anamials don’t have brakes or gas peddles There’s so many factors in a race positioning cover dead locked in. Ect. So if you in think a driver wants to finish in a position that’s predetermining your so wrong It’s not worth it with purse today at most tracks
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and the 'instructions' are to end up third,
"how do you and 8 other drivers 'ensure'
that third place finish...so we all get 'paid'.
Again, I consider this a great art form...im a student of the game..going on 45 years...
I have been in the Medical profession..more than 45 years
I have been a specialist in diagnosing "Dementia"...45 years is often the turning point........and would be glad to counsel you !
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To the fan. Try it once. Most people will s&@t there pants. Sitting behind a 1100 lbs horse You are total clueless if you think some driver going to finish where they want. You have no clue what’s going to happen these anamials don’t have brakes or gas peddles There’s so many factors in a race positioning cover dead locked in. Ect. So if you in think a driver wants to finish in a position that’s predetermining your so wrong It’s not worth it with purse today at most tracks
It's gotta be pretty damn easy NOT TO WIN.
It's gotta be kinda sorta easy NOT to hit the Ex or Tri ticket
Right?
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Ask Jimmy Cruise Sr, he was the best.
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Sitting 3rd heading for home. I had my owner all wheel me for 3rd..It's a trot race. All good all I have to due is finish 3rd. I'm close to the 2nd horse but all is good almost there and poof the 2nd horse jumps it off. I finished 3rd and was placed 2nd for lapped on!
100% true story!
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a thousand ways to lose but only one way to win
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Kirby's Ace
I think ive seen that exact trot result a few times....'3rd and cooled out' until that idiot breaks ahead of you.
thanks for that.
-- heard story once, prominent toronto trot driver had told his couple of gambling buddies at Greenwood to pound his heavy fave horse, for him and them, win and exactor..the heavy gambling driver and two 'hammering' friends were leaving for Vegas the next couple days and wanted to pad their pockets...one problem, his usually reliable steed jumped it off on top by 5 at the 16th pole...**they delayed the trip a couple weeks because two of three got stung reeeeeeeal hard.
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Nobody gets instructions on where to finish. They would have to be nuts to think that anything like that would pan out. There are variants to this. If you have a horse who fits NW2 you can keep finishing 2nd to milk the class but even then you have to have a horse who lays over the field and you would have to be very skilled to not look like your trying not to win. Eventually you will get in a field where you will have to win no matter what. To try and finish third wouldn't even be easy in a three horse race.
Training juveniles down you can decide who is going to sit where in the mile and who is going to take the pocket and who will be third. Then down the backside the third horse could be urged to the front and then the second horse will take over after that. Even if there are 5 horses in a set you can orchestrate how the mile will be run but even then its hard to think that it's going to work out that way, In this case it's not a big deal so long as you all finish together on the wire, If you tried to orchestrate an actual race like that you would be all messed up. In the old days they would line up races but I have only seen one stiff job this year and that was with my wife's horse. I let it slide because only amateurs accuse a driver of ripping their horse. You got to deal with it.
Sometimes honest crook drivers will tell you something like......we can't win this so let's just go for a check ....which means they'll try to get you a 4th or 5th but not run over the smart money. This was more common at Yonkers in the 80s and 90s. Meadowlands is an honest run for your money but I saw a few stiffs last year. Ake Svansdetd pulled the pocket the other night to give cover to his entry horse and it won and he ended up nowhere. That looked bad but its not my horse so i dont care.
Sometimes a really tight driver colony will try to set up races but someone always misses the mark because a horse is not a car. This was what was going on at Yonkers until Luc Oullette showed up and crushed that scam. He always drove to win and that got him punched around a little.
Like someone else said.....if you plan to finish 3rd the odds are that you won't. Top drivers are great at winning. That's why they are good. They trained their minds to win and they know pace and position but even the greatest drivers in the world aren't good at finishing where they want to finish except first. They can intentionally only get second but that usually looks bad and only Herve could make it look like he was trying to win when he wasn't.
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Sitting 3rd heading for home. I had my owner all wheel me for 3rd..It's a trot race. All good all I have to due is finish 3rd. I'm close to the 2nd horse but all is good almost there and poof the 2nd horse jumps it off. I finished 3rd and was placed 2nd for lapped on!
100% true story!
SINCE IT IS ONLY LEGAL TO BET YOURSELF OR HAVE AN OWNER BET ON THEIR OWN HORSE TO WIN, NICE TO SEE YOU ARE ONE OF THE LOWLIFE CHEATING FUCKS THAT HAVE RUINED THE GAME FOR EVERYONE ELSE
HOPE THAT EVERYONE IN YOUR FAMILY CATCHES CORONA VIRUS AND IS HOOKED UP TO A VENTILATER FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES UNTIL DEAD AND HOPE SOMEONE PUTS SEVERAL BULLETS IN YOU
EVEN THAT WOULD BE TOO NICE tmbz1
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Thank you!
Have a blessed day!
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SINCE IT IS ONLY LEGAL TO BET YOURSELF OR HAVE AN OWNER BET ON THEIR OWN HORSE TO WIN, NICE TO SEE YOU ARE ONE OF THE LOWLIFE CHEATING FUCKS THAT HAVE RUINED THE GAME FOR EVERYONE ELSE
HOPE THAT EVERYONE IN YOUR FAMILY CATCHES CORONA VIRUS AND IS HOOKED UP TO A VENTILATER FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES UNTIL DEAD AND HOPE SOMEONE PUTS SEVERAL BULLETS IN YOU
EVEN THAT WOULD BE TOO NICE tmbz1
Where is the Admin on allowing this to be posted?
Horseplop’s Registration Agreement:
“You agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, adult material, or otherwise in violation of any International or United States Federal law.”
Looks like the members have to take matters into their own hands.
Call this guy out!
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Looks like the members have to take matters into their own hands.
Call this guy out!
YEAH, CALL THE CHEATER OUT FOR CHEATING BETTORS OUT OF AN HONEST RACE. ATTEMPTED RACE FIXING. IF YOU DONT YOU ARE IN FAVOR OF IT. ANY BETTOR WHO HAS BEEN SCREWED LIKE THAT MORE THAN DESERVES HIS SAY.
THE GAME HAS TURNED THE BLIND EYE TOWARDS THE GAMBLER SO LONG THEY DISAPPEARED. AND NOW WHEN THE REALLY COULD USE THEM, THEY ARE STICKING THEIR MIDDLE FINGER BACK AT YA
(https://i.imgur.com/KCM6b0G.jpg)
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Couple of things...First off, Carnival People knows what he is talking about. When he posts something read it because you will learn.
I have have driven in literally thousands of harness races. Never once have I pulled up next to another driver during the warm up period and talked about fixing a race. If you have ever been out there you would understand how absolutely absurd that is. 95% of the time we aren't even talking about racing. Its usually about some bullshit totally unrelated. Sometimes, if you have one thats squirrelly, you will put him next to another horse to calm them down. And when we do talk about racing its usually something like , Hey, the trainer says I absolutely have to get to the front here, so if you leave Im going to have to retake. And i can guarantee you the judges know theres nothing going on out there but because it looks bad they have to hand out the $50 penalty once in a while.
Heres another...I've driven approx 64 million youngster training sessions. That usually involves 3-5 juveniles learning how to race. So we try to determine who is going to do what and when and even at slow speeds in conditions where its ok to control the outcome it rarely goes as planned. Like Carnival says, they ain't cars. Try doing that going in 48 with judges watching.
Im not saying fishy stuff doesn't happen because it does. But it isn't nearly as prevalent as a lot of people think.
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YEAH, CALL THE CHEATER OUT FOR CHEATING BETTORS OUT OF AN HONEST RACE. ATTEMPTED RACE FIXING. IF YOU DONT YOU ARE IN FAVOR OF IT. ANY BETTOR WHO HAS BEEN SCREWED LIKE THAT MORE THAN DESERVES HIS SAY.
THE GAME HAS TURNED THE BLIND EYE TOWARDS THE GAMBLER SO LONG THEY DISAPPEARED. AND NOW WHEN THE REALLY COULD USE THEM, THEY ARE STICKING THEIR MIDDLE FINGER BACK AT YA
(https://i.imgur.com/KCM6b0G.jpg)
I’m not questioning the 1st paragraph.
It’s the 2nd paragraph that is irritating.
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SINCE IT IS ONLY LEGAL TO BET YOURSELF OR HAVE AN OWNER BET ON THEIR OWN HORSE TO WIN, NICE TO SEE YOU ARE ONE OF THE LOWLIFE CHEATING FUCKS THAT HAVE RUINED THE GAME FOR EVERYONE ELSE
HOPE THAT EVERYONE IN YOUR FAMILY CATCHES CORONA VIRUS AND IS HOOKED UP TO A VENTILATER FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES UNTIL DEAD AND HOPE SOMEONE PUTS SEVERAL BULLETS IN YOU
EVEN THAT WOULD BE TOO NICE tmbz1
You hope someone puts bullets in us?? Are you fucking serious? Comments like that are the reason i will never use my real name hete. I didn't even use it on the sign up page. Way too many nuts out. Ive dealt with these types of people my entire racing career but i have a family now.
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You hope someone puts bullets in us?? Are you fucking serious? Comments like that are the reason i will never use my real name hete. I didn't even use it on the sign up page. Way too many nuts out. Ive dealt with these types of people my entire racing career but i have a family now.
I don't blame you. Every positive post I've made or seen about drivers has been shot down by a bunch of haters. They don't understand without drivers there horses wouldn't have any success. If a driver or trainer has any success they get accused of cheating or race fixing. People can't stand when people just are talented.
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Most likely a young punk with nothing in his hands other than his pecker! A real Keyboard warrior!
And a 1 dollar exactor boxer!
ngc3
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Where is the Admin on allowing this to be posted?
Horseplop’s Registration Agreement:
“You agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, adult material, or otherwise in violation of any International or United States Federal law.”
Looks like the members have to take matters into their own hands.
Call this guy out!
If they followed this agreement which everyone here accepted. Then John Frank would of been gone years ago along with over 1/2 the posters on here!
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YOU BOYS SOUND A LITTLE SCARED OF SOME LEAD HEADING YOUR WAY. MUST HAVE NEVER DRIVEN AT HAZEL PARK AND HAVE TO MAKE THAT WALK FROM THE PADDOCK TO THE TRACK. THERE WOULD BE A GUY STANDING THERE WITH A MEMBER OF YOUR FAMILY, AND HE WOULD BE ON YOUR SIDE!
SOME GUY CAME IN ONCE FROM, LETS SAY DELAWARE, AND THOUGHT HE WOULD PLAY BY HIS OWN SET OF RULES.
LETS JUST SAY, HE LEFT
IN A DUFFLE BAG
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YOU BOYS SOUND A LITTLE SCARED OF SOME LEAD HEADING YOUR WAY. MUST HAVE NEVER DRIVEN AT HAZEL PARK AND HAVE TO MAKE THAT WALK FROM THE PADDOCK TO THE TRACK. THERE WOULD BE A GUY STANDING THERE WITH A MEMBER OF YOUR FAMILY, AND HE WOULD BE ON YOUR SIDE!
SOME GUY CAME IN ONCE FROM, LETS SAY DELAWARE, AND THOUGHT HE WOULD PLAY BY HIS OWN SET OF RULES.
LETS JUST SAY, HE LEFT
IN A DUFFLE BAG
He must have been a little fella
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Millions of Dollars Cash Money got passed in Hazels paddock.
What a great place that was back in the day.
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big daddy knows nothing like the walk back from track at hazel good thing they had security guards those where the goodold days
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Herve, in the day was so good at freehold.and as you all know loved to gamble. Made it look easy measuring for second or third.
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The supers and later, the hi5s, made 4ths and 5ths an art too.
Anyone can win.
But
Finding the under slots.
oooo.
Now you're talking filling out those 1500 dollar 20cent tix.
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WHo bets for the so called cheaters?
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You hope someone puts bullets in us?? Are you fucking serious? Comments like that are the reason i will never use my real name hete. I didn't even use it on the sign up page. Way too many nuts out.
Where is the Admin on allowing this to be posted?
“You agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, etc etc
Looks like the members have to take matters into their own hands.
Call this guy out!
This forum is probably required to post those "rules" which include non posting of vulgar, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, adult material, etc. things. Then they give you emoji's which are all of those and more. Are they sending mixed messages? IMO no, they are thumbing their nose at the "regulators".
"Banding" is selective. The worst thing the one that got a vacation today said was "pecker" but that's not why she or he got removed. The rule that person broke was unwritten. Wasting everyone's time with sheer nonsense with repeated posts. Insulting Pigland was the final nail in that coffin.
In this thread we have a self proclaimed troll wishing harm on "cheaters" and their families by way of Virus and Bullets. Is that taking it too far ? I think so, IMO A time out would be in order.
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WHo bets for the so called cheaters?
Go read Larry Rollas book, He fixed races for decades and made it look easy!