Which driver has set 1 up more than anyone?

[Emperor Dapple]

Don't believe every exaggeration you read in a book that this former trainer\driver is trying to sell....Have you ever noticed the guys that are broke are always bragging that they did this and that and have nothing to show for it...The smart ones were the quiet ones who kept low profiles.

[Nubby]

GAGS!

[The Exporter]

E.D> , I know you have a half century of knowledge and wisdom in racing. Me too. I witnessed many of the fixed races. I remember the last race at Monticello, 1984. The race where I think 4 drivers and 3 trainers where charged by the RWB for race fixing. I remember being in the paddock at Freehold where the last race again was  almost a daily set-up. I watch Walter case accept his "package " at Northfeild right in front of me, as I was an owner at my trainers barn, with a horse in the race.
 This game has been a set -up from the first day I saw it. Now, it is still a scam using ,ore recent technology.

[comeonman]

Dapple you could have not said it better. The quiet ones got it all. Not the loud mouth s. I know a  driver and a owner who took out so much money from the windows in a period of about 6 yrs first hand. I would never tell u there names as a really don't even know how much . But it was probably in the vicinity of 200k.  Yes lost also but when all said and done bought horses with cash . Sold a few. Was a very profitable marriage. It ened a long time ago. But no one knew or still knows cause people kept quiet

[Jctoronto]

We ALL know harness racing, and its human element, is fixed(controlled, managed, sports entertainment, whatever).
...AND we really wouldn't want it any other way.

Grab a program and play along 365!!!!

dice, deck of cards, spinning wheel, scratch offs, ping pong balls, a new orleans referee.  I mean really...what gives you the most consistent opportunity to gamble day in, day out (on selected and accurately handicapped events) than harness racing.  You all know the tricks of the game. Its the same tricks every card every track every day..it all plays into your hands daily. NOW DO $$$ SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

[Emperor Dapple]

E.D> , I know you have a half century of knowledge and wisdom in racing. Me too. I witnessed many of the fixed races. I remember the last race at Monticello, 1984. The race where I think 4 drivers and 3 trainers where charged by the RWB for race fixing. I remember being in the paddock at Freehold where the last race again was  almost a daily set-up. I watch Walter case accept his "package " at Northfeild right in front of me, as I was an owner at my trainers barn, with a horse in the race.
 This game has been a set -up from the first day I saw it. Now, it is still a scam using ,ore recent technology.

I can't argue with you..I know stuff went on, I used to witness envelopes being handed out the day after a race, sometimes out in the open paddock at the qualifiers to a guy who went dead the night before...I was very close with one of the gamblers who was indicted in the 1973 Superfecta scandal in NY Yonkers\Roosevelt, and for all the money he made, he admitted to me he ended up with nothing after paying his lawyers to defend him in court...I'm not naive to think guys going dead wasn't common..An envelope with $300 was good money to a driver up in Monticello back in the  late 70's...Heck it may be good money now to some of them...I guess my point is, I just don't believe every thing that someone may have written in a book that he's trying to sell...I believe there are many exaggerations...I'm out of business for many years..Do I believe some guys who love to gamble still Fxxk around ? , sure I'd be naive not to believe that...And like you said with today's technology , they may not be fixing races anymore at  these tracks with large purses but I do believe there is chemical warfare that has destroyed any ounce of integrity that may have been in this business.. My opinion , it's a matter of time before these casinos can figure a way to wiggle out of subsidizing these bloated purses and the industry will shrink further..The younger generations have no interest in harness racing..It was fun while I was in it, even though I made no real money, it did teach me a lot about people and I moved on, got lucky and found another successful career track...More than anything I do get a kick out of reading Plop!! Some of you guys are too funny!! 

[carl baldwin]

Everyone dies broke

I want to die owing. 

[Stone 162]

 I laugh at these guys who cheated the betting public, back in the day, think that the guys who gas nowadays are the ones who ruined harness racing.
At least the guys who pay to gas are racing to win.

[TTitans1]

Phil LaFramboise. Rodney was good at it too but Phil was a master.

[The Exporter]

We are on the same page, E.D. Great post.

[Brkn Headpole]

Carmine, Herve or Ross Hayter. Masters of the set up.

I remember a Herve story where a driver says to him scoring down if he could finish second today.  Herve says no way I got a $200 dd off my horse. Driver says okay I'll give you a $100 dd off my horse. Herve says okay. He didnt have a dime bet on the race but still cashed a $100 dd.

[Emperor Dapple]

I laugh at these guys who cheated the betting public, back in the day, think that the guys who gas nowadays are the ones who ruined harness racing.
At least the guys who pay to gas are racing to win.

Stone, You make a good point..I don't disagree with you...There's enough blame to go around for ruining this sport from race fixing to horse drugging...For me personally, the drugging bothers me more because I feel bad for all the equine deaths and injuries that have occurred due to the chemists of today..That being said, I'm not condoning cheating or stiffing a horse either..I really do believe that the decline of this sport was inevitable as gambling \ entertainment choices have changed greatly in the last 40 years ...Even when people thought racing was fixed back in the 60's\70's , the grandstands were filled...As I watched my father and his friends born in the 1930's and earlier die off, so did the sport...I just think younger people moved onto other forms of gambling and harness racing got left behind..Just not exciting or glamorous enough I guess...

[Shadow Wave]

Stone, You make a good point..I don't disagree with you...There's enough blame to go around for ruining this sport from race fixing to horse drugging...For me personally, the drugging bothers me more because I feel bad for all the equine deaths and injuries that have occurred due to the chemists of today..That being said, I'm not condoning cheating or stiffing a horse either..I really do believe that the decline of this sport was inevitable as gambling \ entertainment choices have changed greatly in the last 40 years ...Even when people thought racing was fixed back in the 60's\70's , the grandstands were filled...As I watched my father and his friends born in the 1930's and earlier die off, so did the sport...I just think younger people moved onto other forms of gambling and harness racing got left behind..Just not exciting or glamorous enough I guess...

Back in the day, was my day.  In those days, purses were pedestrian and wagering pools were gigantic.  It was all about gambling and getting things done.  I raced against Herve and his Capital Hills Farm horses for years and in the beginning I was amazed at how he turned the death trip on a half mile track, first over, into his normal mode of operation. Soon it came to light that he had help in his endeavors that had nothing to do with Great Hands.  He would have ended up wealthy had it not been for that fact that he was probably the world's worst gin rummy player.  Of course Atlantic City didn't help him either.  I remember people lining up in the Roosevelt track kitchen for a shot at him.

Since then, the world of harness racing has come full circle.  Now its all about big purses.  That means that the trainers of today, must use any means at their disposal to get to the finish line first.  I don't think that this fact in and of itself is totally responsible for the demise of the game.  I think that it is more of a generational thing.  1/2 mile  racing is a non-factor activity.  Young people of the day are not the least bit interested in getting 40-50 cents on the dollar watching Bartlett or Brennan waltz around the track. 

So to answer the question regarding the thread........Cob b, Gilmour, and Webster in a dead heat.
 

[Frank Deglomine]

Ira used to dump on orders more at Washington Park than all the horses emptying out on track. Phil Milburn owned him.

[hasbeen]

Ira used to dump on orders more at Washington Park than all the horses emptying out on track. Phil Milburn owned him.

ira is harmless. I highly doubt he fixed any races. he was voted best new driver for god's sake.